A trick play

Shaddy · Post by **Shaddy** » Fri Dec 12, 2014 12:45 pm

Here is a trick play which I learned a few years ago, probably on this forum or godiscussions.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$c A joseki? $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . 1 . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Does anyone know how to deal with it? I actually can't find anything that works early in the game (later, it's alright for W to take the corner, but I'm not sure how good that is early.) Tenuki is my best idea.

Uberdude · Post by **Uberdude** » Fri Dec 12, 2014 1:12 pm

Just take the ponnuki and accept the forcing moves is also possible: yes it's following black's plan, but you get strong and the corner still has some aji in it.

Kirby · Post by **Kirby** » Fri Dec 12, 2014 4:47 pm

Josekipedia shows some variations.

ez4u · Post by **ez4u** » Fri Dec 12, 2014 4:50 pm

What's the trick?

Shaddy · Post by **Shaddy** » Fri Dec 12, 2014 6:35 pm

The trick is that White shouldn't push into the elephant's jump;

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$c A joseki? $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . 8 3 6 7 . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 4 5 . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . 1 . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 9 . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

8 as an extension leaves pretty bad aji. Uberdude, I think I agree with you now, but I'm still curious if anyone can find a sharp refutation. That move looks so ridiculous!

DrStraw · Post by **DrStraw** » Fri Dec 12, 2014 6:46 pm

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$c $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 0 . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . 6 3 4 9 . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . 8 2 5 . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . 7 . 1 . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

What's wrong with this? White has a strong group, pretty much unassailable and black has nothing to get excited about. Don't forget, black played first in this corner, so if white ends up with sente after another black more there is nothing wrong with black getting about ten points more for their combined efforts. If black plays tenuki now there is plenty for white to take advantage of.

Elom · Post by **Elom** » Sat Dec 13, 2014 9:53 am

Ironically, I learnt it two days ago, and I must say that I "liked" black, although not thinking black is better. Maybe the person who showed this as a trick play slightly preferred white? Looks like joseki anyway, so used it :cool:

why is it a "trick play" ?

Vesa · Post by **Vesa** » Sat Dec 13, 2014 10:48 am

This reminds me about a Formula 1 proverb: "You can't win the race on the first corner."

Exceptions allowed.

Cheers,
Vesa

EdLee · Post by **EdLee** » Sat Dec 13, 2014 9:36 pm

Vesa wrote:a Formula 1 proverb

Exceptions allowed.

Hi Vesa,

It's nice to know these proverbs show up everywhere,
and they are all so full of traps (exceptions).

logan · Post by **logan** » Mon Dec 15, 2014 2:22 pm

DrStraw wrote:
$$c
$$ ---------------------
$$ . . . . . 0 . . . . . |
$$ . . . . 6 3 4 9 . . . |
$$ . . . . 8 2 5 . . . . |
$$ . , . . . 7 . 1 . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . . . |

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c $$ --------------------- $$ . . . . . 0 . . . . . | $$ . . . . 6 3 4 9 . . . | $$ . . . . 8 2 5 . . . . | $$ . , . . . 7 . 1 . . . | $$ . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ . . . . . . . . . . . |[/go]

What's wrong with this? White has a strong group, pretty much unassailable and black has nothing to get excited about. Don't forget, black played first in this corner, so if white ends up with sente after another black more there is nothing wrong with black getting about ten points more for their combined efforts. If black plays tenuki now there is plenty for white to take advantage of.

Good position for White. As anyone who's studied this shape in ancient Chinese games can say, it's a treasure trove of aji and forcing moves for White -- even with a followup move by Black.

oren · Post by **oren** » Tue Dec 30, 2014 2:27 pm

This play was covered in the latest Japanese Go World by Oya Kouichi 9p. I'll try to summarize a few parts of it when I have some more time later.

For anyone who wants to read directly,
https://e-gobooks.nihonkiin.or.jp/produ ... ct_id=2042

Life In 19x19

A trick play

A trick play

Re: A trick play

Re: A trick play

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Re: A trick play

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Re: A trick play