Seven stones

Thimblefox · Post by **Thimblefox** » Tue Mar 24, 2015 11:49 am

Because I had to learn a new language, I ended up not playing Go for 18 months. Before that I reached 12k. Now I'm starting anew.

I need to better my capacity for reading the status of groups in the game.(I've just ordered "1001 Life-and-Death Problems" for this purpose). I also make it a habit to look up the joseki I played (with or without success) and apply what I learn about that joseki to my future games.

skydyr · Post by **skydyr** » Tue Mar 24, 2015 1:17 pm

I've added some comments here:

White made a couple crucial mistakes that cost huge amounts of points: not playing that cut on the upper side, and playing out a broken ladder that gave away the entire right side to black. You saw quite a few of black's issues yourself, at least afterwards, so you may want to consider playing with longer time controls so you have time to spot them in play. 10 minutes absolute is really quite fast, maybe 2-3 seconds per move. I don't recommend playing blitz games until you're stronger, as playing so quickly can really reinforce bad habits because you don't have time to consider alternatives.

Edit: Apparently I wasn't looking closely when I threw down that squeeze following the cut on the top side. There's a mistake there, which I will leave to you to find.

Thimblefox · Post by **Thimblefox** » Tue Mar 24, 2015 2:31 pm

Thanks for the feedback! :tmbup:

I've just read through Kageyama's chapter on cutting and connecting in "Lessons in the fundamentals of Go" and it gave me good perspective on alternative strategies. :study:

I think the time might have been an issue as well, we were playing with 10 minutes absolute + 10 minutes for 25 stones I think.

oren · Post by **oren** » Tue Mar 24, 2015 2:52 pm

Thimblefox wrote: I think the time might have been an issue as well, we were playing with 10 minutes absolute + 10 minutes for 25 stones I think.

That's a fairly good amount of time to play the game if you're using most of your 10 min periods.

skydyr · Post by **skydyr** » Tue Mar 24, 2015 5:09 pm

Thimblefox wrote:I think the time might have been an issue as well, we were playing with 10 minutes absolute + 10 minutes for 25 stones I think.

Oh, this is different from what I understood. The game file looks like it is only 10 minutes each, with no overtime.

Boidhre · Post by **Boidhre** » Tue Mar 24, 2015 5:20 pm

A follow up on skydyr's review:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$B $$ +---------------------------------------+ $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . O . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . O . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . b . . . . . . . a . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

Here, look at the two move options. I'm not recommending either in this situation but I want you to get a feel for which one increases your potential territory more. At the start of the game you'll not be focused overly on creating definite territory but staking out claims to wider areas that you are threatening to get at least part of as territory. You should try to look over this game and others you play and look at the opening in this like. Are my moves increasing my potential, are they reducing my opponent's or are they necessary for this group to be stable (i.e. not easily attacked). b here encourages your opponent to reduce your potential, this is bad.

Thimblefox · Post by **Thimblefox** » Wed Mar 25, 2015 12:02 pm

A match I played yesterday evening, it was part of a mini-tournament.

A match I played today.

EdLee · Post by **EdLee** » Wed Mar 25, 2015 12:05 pm

Hi Thimblefox,

Game 1:

:b9:

atari P14. This is a good, basic shape to learn and remember:
when you hane with :b7:

, there are two good follow-ups: R15 and P14.
Both B and W want them. But each player can only get one of them, not both.
If W extends to P14 on :w8:

, then you push at R15.
If W blocks at R15 on :w8:

(the real game), then you atari P14.
You cannot let W get both R15 and P14,
which is what would happen with your connect on :b9:

--
W would extend to P14 on :w10:

-- W ends up with both vital points R15 and P14.

:w10:

W also did not understand these basic vital points.
W should've taken P14.

Maybe you have heard of the term miai . ( Pronounced [mɪ-aɪ] )

When you hane :b7:

, you have miai of R15 and P14 --
if W takes P14, you take R15.
If W takes R15, you take P14.
You cannot let W take both vital points.

If you study and learn this basic sequence: starting from
your approach :b5:

, W attaches :w6:

, you hane :b7:

,
the miai of R15 and P14 --
the knowledge here is worth this game.

EdLee · Post by **EdLee** » Wed Mar 25, 2015 12:27 pm

Hi Thimblefox,

Game 2:

:w14:

mistake. Instead, extend to C13 -- your comment is correct.
After you extend to C13 on :w14:

, B hanes D18, you block E18,
B connects C18, you tiger's mouth F17 -- this completes a basic joseki.

If you study and learn this basic corner sequence, this is worth this game.

Thimblefox · Post by **Thimblefox** » Wed Mar 25, 2015 12:45 pm

EdLee wrote:
If you study and learn this basic sequence: starting from
your approach , W attaches , you hane ,
the miai of R15 and P14 --
the knowledge here is worth this game.

Hi EdLee, thanks for your comments. I see now that there's actually a joseki for this, I'll read up on it, thank you for pointing this out! :bow:

Thimblefox · Post by **Thimblefox** » Thu Mar 26, 2015 8:05 am

I'm really starting to feel how much trouble it's causing me that I don't have much training with Tsumego.

Amelia · Post by **Amelia** » Thu Mar 26, 2015 8:46 am

You say at :b7:

that you are trying to stick to the plan. What is your plan?

Edit: a couple of comments about the opening moves:

Thimblefox · Post by **Thimblefox** » Thu Mar 26, 2015 9:24 am

Amelia wrote:You say at that you are trying to stick to the plan. What is your plan?

I meant that playing at A would be sticking to the plan, as opposed to defending the corner straight away. I just looked it up as well, and it seems that A is also a way to answer white's approach when one's playing orthodox fuseki. http://senseis.xmp.net/?OrthodoxFusekiApproach

EDIT: Though they only discuss pincer moves.

oren · Post by **oren** » Thu Mar 26, 2015 9:29 am

Thimblefox wrote:
Amelia wrote:You say at that you are trying to stick to the plan. What is your plan?

I meant that playing at A would be sticking to the plan, as opposed to defending the corner straight away. I just looked it up as well, and it seems that A is also a way to answer white's approach when one's playing orthodox fuseki. http://senseis.xmp.net/?OrthodoxFusekiApproach

A is unusual but possible.

At this point, you have a very common opening. You can check out a resource like http://ps.waltheri.net/ to see where professionals played in situations like this. It may give you some ideas in areas that are common, but you're not sure.

Amelia · Post by **Amelia** » Thu Mar 26, 2015 10:03 am

Anyway, you're correct that tsumego comes first

How about the lower side of the board? What is the status of the black group?

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