Game plan as white?

[daal]

During the last month or so, when playing black I've been following a game plan which is to build my positions as much as possible until the fighting starts. This means that I don't make the first approach move, but rather play on "my" corners and "my" sides until my opponent comes in. Since I invariably have more stones in that area, it seems I have an advantage from the start, which I often can keep throughout the game. My record as black this month has been hovering around 70%. As white however this plan doesn't seem to work, as either I get behind in a moyo building contest, or I end up approaching first instead of building further. Needless to say, I haven't been winning as much. I'm curious to hear if any of you have a particular game plan that you try to follow as white.

[Gomoto]

If you don't want to follow black's game plan, you can try early approach moves as white. (Your second stone against 4-4 or even your first white stone if black plays 3-4).

I for one like the games that follow much more, than playing against Kobayashi, Chinese, etc. openings.

[daal]

It's not that I don't want to follow black's game plan, it's just that I want to have one of my own. I have tried upsetting black's game plan as you suggest, and it does have the advantage of not letting black play the game he had planned, but these games typically wind up as slugfests, which I tend to lose. I'd like to find a way to draw black into fighting on "my" side first, but it doesn't seem to work that way if black doesn't want to.

[Kirby]

it's hard to build a big moyo as white, since you're playing second. I like to keep things split up, and prevent black from getting a big shape.

if both sides have fewer points in the end, komi is bigger relative to the end score.

[Tryss]

if both sides have fewer points in the end, komi is bigger relative to the end score.

That's not true with area counting, so my guess is that it's not relevant even with territory counting

[Gomoto]

Not true Tryss, not a (significant, aka >0.5) difference area and territory scoring here.


Those not in the know always seem to defy this fact
(The important thing is the relative size of the komi to the score difference)

[EdLee]

Hi daal,

but these games typically wind up as slugfests, which I tend to lose.

Seems you've already identified one factor.
If we tend to lose slugfests -- we can have some educated guesses for the reasons -- and we choose to avoid slugfests, then how will we ever improve at slugfests ( and deal with said reasons ) ?

We have our knowledge gaps, as do our opponents. If we tend to lose slugfests, it may mean we have more knowledge gaps in slugfests than our opponents around similar levels. Addressing these gaps is a way to improve ( and to win more slugfests against similar level opponents ).

[daal]

Hi daal,

but these games typically wind up as slugfests, which I tend to lose.

Seems you've already identified one factor.
If you tend to lose slugfests -- we can have some educated guesses for the reasons -- and you choose to avoid slugfests, then how will you ever improve at slugfests ( and deal with said reasons ) ?

I don't generally avoid slugfests - it's just that if I can fight with an advantage, I prefer to do that

[EdLee]

Hi daal,

I see; makes sense.

And the knowledge gaps idea still holds: slugfests are exposing certain gaps for you.

[Kirby]

if both sides have fewer points in the end, komi is bigger relative to the end score.

That's not true with area counting, so my guess is that it's not relevant even with territory counting

Why is it not true? If the score without komi is 100 to 110, komi matters less than if the score without komi is 60 to 65, doesn’t it? If you have more live stones on the board, the point value is less and komi is more significant, right?

[Gomoto]

At the end of the game:
If white plays last margin of victory is the same.
If black plays last area scoring one more point to black.

(It is not like you suggest half the difference in territory scoring.)


I did not explain my view very clearly in my previous post. A second try:

If you are in the middlegame and counting is roughly 70 to 70 (77 with Komi) points on the board you are 10% behind white.

If you are in the middlegame and counting is roughly 35 to 35 (42) points you are 20% behind white.

[Kirby]

At the end of the game:
If white plays last margin of victory is the same.
If black plays last area scoring one more point to black.

(It is not like you suggest half the difference in territory scoring.)


I did not explain my view very clearly in my previous post. A second try:

If you are in the middlegame and counting is roughly 70 to 70 (77 with Komi) points on the board you are 10% behind white.

If you are in the middlegame and counting is roughly 35 to 35 (42) points you are 20% behind white.

Yeah, I agree with you.

[Bill Spight]

If we tend to lose slugfests -- we can have some educated guesses for the reasons -- and we choose to avoid slugfests, then how will we ever improve at slugfests ( and deal with said reasons ) ?

Well worth repeating.

[Bill Spight]

I don't generally avoid slugfests - it's just that if I can fight with an advantage, I prefer to do that

Two words to the wise: Sabaki and Shinogi.

[Tryss]

If you are in the middlegame and counting is roughly 35 to 35 (42) points you are 20% behind white.

Yeah, 35 to 36 (43.5) is different compared to 65 to 66 (73.5).

Except that's also the difference between 180 points to 181 (188.5) and 180 points to 181 (188.5) with area counting (if there's no seki)