tengen fuseki

General conversations about Go belong here.
Post Reply
User avatar
Laman
Lives in gote
Posts: 655
Joined: Thu May 06, 2010 10:24 pm
Rank: 1d KGS
GD Posts: 0
KGS: Laman
Location: Czechia
Has thanked: 29 times
Been thanked: 41 times
Contact:

tengen fuseki

Post by Laman »

in this interview with Go Seigen i read that according to Go the two best sanrenseis were these two:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c Sanrensei #1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 2 . . . . . , . . . . . 1 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . 5 . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 3 . . . . . , . . . . . 4 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c Sanrensei #2
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 4 . . . . . , . . . . . 1 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . 5 . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 2 . . . . . , . . . . . 3 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

i liked it and i started to play it in my games, but i am not sure, if i use it properly. do you know any pro games with these fusekis? i would like to see how pros play with them, but i couldnt find any such game
Spilling gasoline feels good.

I might be wrong, but probably not.
User avatar
Jordus
Site Admin
Posts: 1125
Joined: Fri Dec 04, 2009 6:06 pm
Rank: KGS 9k
GD Posts: 0
Universal go server handle: Jordus
Location: Allegan, MI, USA
Has thanked: 16 times
Been thanked: 116 times
Contact:

Re: tengen fuseki

Post by Jordus »

A variation of the first was played in Go Seigen's "Game of the Century"

This is the sgf is from Go Game World.

I'm thinking...
User avatar
kirkmc
Lives in sente
Posts: 1072
Joined: Tue Apr 20, 2010 3:51 am
Rank: 5K KGS
GD Posts: 1165
KGS: Dogen
Location: Stratford-upon-Avon, England
Has thanked: 32 times
Been thanked: 70 times
Contact:

Re: tengen fuseki

Post by kirkmc »

A lot of these things were tried during the height of the "new fuseki", but since the pros never really adopted them, it's safe to assume that they're probably not optimal. If you play some kind of odd fuseki on a server, you may win a bunch of games, because your opponents don't know what to do, but I think you'll eventually hit a wall with them.
My blog about Macs and more: Kirkville
User avatar
kirkmc
Lives in sente
Posts: 1072
Joined: Tue Apr 20, 2010 3:51 am
Rank: 5K KGS
GD Posts: 1165
KGS: Dogen
Location: Stratford-upon-Avon, England
Has thanked: 32 times
Been thanked: 70 times
Contact:

Re: tengen fuseki

Post by kirkmc »

Helel wrote:If at all possible, try to listen to Yilun Yang's lecture on the subject. (KGS+)


Do you know when that was?
My blog about Macs and more: Kirkville
User avatar
kirkmc
Lives in sente
Posts: 1072
Joined: Tue Apr 20, 2010 3:51 am
Rank: 5K KGS
GD Posts: 1165
KGS: Dogen
Location: Stratford-upon-Avon, England
Has thanked: 32 times
Been thanked: 70 times
Contact:

Re: tengen fuseki

Post by kirkmc »

Helel wrote:
kirkmc wrote:Do you know when that was?


2010-03-21


Thanks. I'll check that one out; I haven't seen it yet.
My blog about Macs and more: Kirkville
amnal
Lives in gote
Posts: 589
Joined: Fri Apr 23, 2010 10:42 am
Rank: 2 dan
GD Posts: 0
Been thanked: 114 times

Re: tengen fuseki

Post by amnal »

kirkmc wrote:A lot of these things were tried during the height of the "new fuseki", but since the pros never really adopted them, it's safe to assume that they're probably not optimal. If you play some kind of odd fuseki on a server, you may win a bunch of games, because your opponents don't know what to do, but I think you'll eventually hit a wall with them.


This might be true (particularly for the extra unusual fuseki moves), but I don't think it is for openings such as those suggested above. Openings like Go Seigen's sanrenseis above are not common, but they have great strength wholly separate from the fact that they're slightly unusual.
User avatar
Laman
Lives in gote
Posts: 655
Joined: Thu May 06, 2010 10:24 pm
Rank: 1d KGS
GD Posts: 0
KGS: Laman
Location: Czechia
Has thanked: 29 times
Been thanked: 41 times
Contact:

Re: tengen fuseki

Post by Laman »

thank you for all your replies

Jordus: great, funny that one of most famous games didnt come to my mind :)

kirkmc wrote:A lot of these things were tried during the height of the "new fuseki", but since the pros never really adopted them, it's safe to assume that they're probably not optimal.
i wouldnt be afraid of that, if it was good enough for top players during shin fuseki ho, it can be good enough for me now. and maybe more important, it is boring to death to play in every game the same stars and komokus, this is something fresh and interesting :)

Helel wrote:If at all possible, try to listen to Yilun Yang's lecture on the subject. (KGS+)
too bad, i dont have a kgs+ account, but thank for the tip anyway

i am still interested about the second variation, especially because oponents more often occupy d4, so i cant play diagonally

my games then usually continue some way like this:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc Sanrensei #2, continuation
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . . , 1 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . 4 . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Spilling gasoline feels good.

I might be wrong, but probably not.
Nikolas73
Lives with ko
Posts: 172
Joined: Thu Apr 22, 2010 5:24 pm
Rank: KGS 3 kyu
GD Posts: 42
KGS: Nikolas73
DGS: Nikolas73
Location: London / Vancouver
Has thanked: 28 times
Been thanked: 12 times
Contact:

Re: tengen fuseki

Post by Nikolas73 »

For those with KGS Plus, Yilun Yang did another lecture on a strange opening today:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . X , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Whenever I play against such an influence-based game I try to take as much territory as possible before they have a chance to build a large moyo. Even then, it is usually not difficult to reduce the moyo to something small...
All About Go | Go website featuring lessons, history of Go, downloads, articles by professionals and more.
Post Reply