Beginner question about a tsumego?

If you're new to the game and have questions, post them here.
Post Reply
User avatar
hirohiigo
Dies in gote
Posts: 40
Joined: Thu Aug 26, 2010 10:14 am
Rank: KGS 13-kyu
GD Posts: 0
KGS: hirohiigo
Has thanked: 1 time
Been thanked: 5 times

Beginner question about a tsumego?

Post by hirohiigo »

I've been playing for quite a while but never put in enough effort to go past DDK. I recently found out the Nihon Ki-in offered a free tsumego app, so I picked it up. One of the problems, though, I just didn't understand why it was included, and I hope I'm not missing something:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ | . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . X X X . . . . .
$$ | X O O X X X X . .
$$ | X O . O O O X . .
$$ | . . O O . O X . .
$$ ------------------[/go]


According to the app, the correct answer is:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ | . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . X X X . . . . .
$$ | X O O X X X X . .
$$ | X O . O O O X . .
$$ | . 1 O O . O X . .
$$ ------------------[/go]


But doesn't white live thanks to the ko rule?

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ | . . . . . . . . .
$$ | 3 X X X . . . . .
$$ | X O O X X X X . .
$$ | X O . O O O X . .
$$ | 2 4 O O . O X . .
$$ ------------------[/go]
Image
User avatar
Redundant
Lives in sente
Posts: 924
Joined: Thu Apr 22, 2010 3:00 pm
Rank: lazy
GD Posts: 0
KGS: redundant/silchas
Tygem: redundant
Wbaduk: redundant
DGS: redundant
OGS: redundant
Location: Pittsburgh
Has thanked: 45 times
Been thanked: 103 times

Re: Beginner question about a tsumego?

Post by Redundant »

Black doesn't connect with :b3:, he makes a ko threat.
User avatar
jts
Oza
Posts: 2664
Joined: Sat Sep 18, 2010 4:17 pm
Rank: kgs 6k
GD Posts: 0
Has thanked: 310 times
Been thanked: 634 times

Re: Beginner question about a tsumego?

Post by jts »

Ah, but black gets a chance to move somewhere else for :b4: - he can look for the biggest threat he can find. If W responds then perhaps B doesn't get any points from this "ko threat" directly, but B can recapture the corner, and now W is prohibited from recapturing! If W ignores B's threat to save his corner, then B gets to follow through on his threat, which can be worth a lot of points.
Mivo
Lives in gote
Posts: 335
Joined: Tue May 11, 2010 2:03 pm
GD Posts: 351
Location: Germany
Has thanked: 41 times
Been thanked: 97 times

Re: Beginner question about a tsumego?

Post by Mivo »

The app is "free" rather than free. :) It includes just a few sample tsumegos, the rest are for-pay packages. I bought some of them and they are relatively difficult for how they are labelled (the ones that are meant to be done before the "beginner" ones are the ones meant to be done by, well, beginners!).

As others have said, the goal in the one you got stuck on is about creating a ko, not about killing the group, which I feel is already a problem not for beginners the way most of us probably use the term.
User avatar
hirohiigo
Dies in gote
Posts: 40
Joined: Thu Aug 26, 2010 10:14 am
Rank: KGS 13-kyu
GD Posts: 0
KGS: hirohiigo
Has thanked: 1 time
Been thanked: 5 times

Re: Beginner question about a tsumego?

Post by hirohiigo »

I figured it would be used in a ko fight, but I figured that in a "beginner's tsumego" they would make it obvious that there was a situation where a fight could break out over this group since the rest of the problems in this section are about killing or saving groups.

Thanks.
Image
skydyr
Oza
Posts: 2495
Joined: Wed Aug 01, 2012 8:06 am
GD Posts: 0
Universal go server handle: skydyr
Online playing schedule: When my wife is out.
Location: DC
Has thanked: 156 times
Been thanked: 436 times

Re: Beginner question about a tsumego?

Post by skydyr »

There's kind of an unwritten rule about life and death problems that in killing, your first goal is to kill, or make a ko if you can't do that, or make seki if you can't do that. When trying to live, life is better than seki which is better than ko, but any of those could be the answer if a higher one isn't.
Mike Novack
Lives in sente
Posts: 1045
Joined: Mon Aug 09, 2010 9:36 am
GD Posts: 0
Been thanked: 182 times

Re: Beginner question about a tsumego?

Post by Mike Novack »

Also, the terms "beginner", "intermediate", and "advanced" are relative. You can be sure that the problems presented by one source of problems to be consistent with the level of difficulty. But you should have no expectation about the relative difficulty of problems from different sources. So look for reviews of the problem sets for that sort of information.

As indicated, it is usual/common that you aren't told what the goal is. You might just be being asked "what is the status?" (alive absolutely, alive in seki, alive in ko, dead). Note that the same configuration of stones might represent a problem of somewhat different level of difficulty (less) were you supplied the additional information of exactly what is possible (the exact goal).
Post Reply