Improve for Fun

[Kirby]

I've often made posts pondering about the most efficient way to improve. If I had to choose between doing tsumego and studying pro games, which is better? Should I play a lot of games? Is that the most efficient way to study? A little while ago, I attended a talk given by a Japanese pro that was visiting in the area. As usual, I asked her about the most efficient way to improve.

I told her that I didn't have a lot of time to do all of the various types of study, so what should I focus on for maximal efficiency? Her answer surprised me a little bit.

She told me that I should...

Study what I thought was fun to study.

I was a little taken aback. What kind of answer was that? How can the most efficient way to study be to study what I think is fun? Having fun isn't supposed to be part of getting strong. Physical exercise, for example, isn't fun, but I need to go through that pain to stay in shape.

But I thought about it a little while... Study what I thought was fun to study. Even if this wasn't the most efficient way to study, maybe it was the best way to study:

1.) If all else fails... At least I had fun, right?
2.) Maybe "all else" wouldn't fail. That is to say, maybe by trying to have fun, I would stick with it. Maybe the excitement and fun that I could get by doing what I think is fun would lead me to *want* to do the things that are not fun now. Maybe it's a more natural way to do things.

I've always thought that the way to become strong didn't depend on what was fun, and that if having fun was my goal, it wouldn't likely make me a stronger player.

What do you think of what the pro said?

[Phoenix]

I've spent some time trying to find out what pros think on the matter, and that same answer has come up a lot. When interviewed about this, a lot of pros say they study what they feel like studying. The difference with most of us amateurs, of course, is that they do this 8-10 hours a day.

Pros also get asked a lot about studying in general and things like reviewing games, doing tsumego, etc. A lot of pros seem to have formerly disliked doing tsumego, but have since 'learned to enjoy it'. It's a common trend in most disciplines, where those who are successful either really enjoy the activity, or learn to enjoy it.

There are some exceptions, of course. Muhammad Ali hated every second of his training, but kept the bigger picture in mind. Generally, though, it's about making the 'getting there' part more enjoyable. Otherwise you're in for 8-10 hours of pain and dread every day, and that doesn't motivate anyone!

[billywoods]

What do you think of what the pro said?

a) The only way to stay motivated to keep doing something is to enjoy it, unless you're earning an awful lot of money or someone's got a knife to your throat. You're not going to become strong unless you somehow enjoy it.
b) You're an amateur. Let's be honest: she doesn't want you to be strong, she wants you to love the game. Go stops being a hobby when you treat it like work, and she knows that best.

[Thunkd]

Physical exercise, for example, isn't fun, but I need to go through that pain to stay in shape.

People who find a type of physical exercise they enjoy, like racquetball for example, are much more likely to keep with it. It will be something that find a way to fit into their schedule and soon it becomes something they feel is a privilege and not a burden. But force that person to jog on a treadmill and they may consider it a fate worse than death.

If you force yourself to study something you absolutely hate, eventually you'll stop doing it. Study what you enjoy and it will be fun for you. And if you're not doing this for fun, why are you doing it? No matter how good you get there will always be a better player out there who doesn't consider himself a good player yet. And no matter how good you get, you'll always wish you were better. So if "getting good" is your goal, you'll spend all your time pursuing something that will always be just out of reach. Much better to enjoy what you are doing.

[Bantari]

I've often made posts pondering about the most efficient way to improve. If I had to choose between doing tsumego and studying pro games, which is better? Should I play a lot of games? Is that the most efficient way to study? A little while ago, I attended a talk given by a Japanese pro that was visiting in the area. As usual, I asked her about the most efficient way to improve.

I told her that I didn't have a lot of time to do all of the various types of study, so what should I focus on for maximal efficiency? Her answer surprised me a little bit.

She told me that I should...

Study what I thought was fun to study.

I was a little taken aback. What kind of answer was that? How can the most efficient way to study be to study what I think is fun? Having fun isn't supposed to be part of getting strong. Physical exercise, for example, isn't fun, but I need to go through that pain to stay in shape.

But I thought about it a little while... Study what I thought was fun to study. Even if this wasn't the most efficient way to study, maybe it was the best way to study:

1.) If all else fails... At least I had fun, right?
2.) Maybe "all else" wouldn't fail. That is to say, maybe by trying to have fun, I would stick with it. Maybe the excitement and fun that I could get by doing what I think is fun would lead me to *want* to do the things that are not fun now. Maybe it's a more natural way to do things.

I've always thought that the way to become strong didn't depend on what was fun, and that if having fun was my goal, it wouldn't likely make me a stronger player.

What do you think of what the pro said?

I like what the pro said.
As a matter of fact - I have been saying stuff like that for ages... Although I too got the though from the pros somewhere.

However, I cannot completely agree with your interpretation of what it means. Sure 'If all else fails you still had fun'is a good thing, but there is also a more pragmatic aspect...

I think that when you study what you like rather than grinding, you might actually study more efficiently. And also you are willing to devote more time and effort to it. Its fun, so you strive to do it more often. You might also retain more of the info - its fun, so your mind is less likely to wonder or get distracted.

[snorri]

She may have sensed frustration. The frustrated student of a game---i.e., a recreation for an amateur---is in danger of quitting outright. If you have access to her at all it means she is promoting go and doesn't want that to happen.

You may liken it to the attempts of health professionals to get people to exercise more. They really don't want people to focus on what is the most efficient exercise because if they lead with that, there may be no compliance. For the vast majority of people, just getting them off the couch is a success. Hence: do whatever is fun.

The cynical view is that she basically blew off your question, but I'm not that cynical.

You can't always get what you want. But if you try sometime, you just find... you get what you need.

If you are familiar with fitness strategies, then you may be aware of super slow training. Proponents claim that you can stay fit with very little time commitment. There's just one catch. It's excruciating, a kind of torture. Only a few percent of people who start it continue with the regimen long enough to get benefits. But if you're the kind of person who can do that and stick with it, you should probably mention that to next pro you quiz and you might get a different answer.

Edit: I have some additional ideas on what HIT training for go might look like, but it would be off topic for this thread, so I'll post it in another.

[Joaz Banbeck]

Are you going to take her advice?

[Phoenix]

Are you going to take her advice?

If I may interject, I have to say I for one certainly will. If a pro says it, and if you trust it, then it must be good advice. Otherwise, you end up having fun. Where's the loss?

[Kirby]

Are you going to take her advice?

Probably not, but what a loser @ go such as myself does isn't really relevant to people's opinions on the matter.

[Amelia]

Are you going to take her advice?

Probably not, but what a loser @ go such as myself does isn't really relevant to people's opinions on the matter.

Well, I for once wish I was a loser at go of your level.

But I agree with Bantari. In general I'm more likely to remember something that I find fun, which is why I study joseki and fuseki with pro game commentaries, not with a dictionnary. Possibly you need the right mindset to study efficiently rather than the absolute study technique.

[daal]

Fun is a great motivator, but there are indeed others, such as pride, money and impressing ladies. Unfortunately, regarding go, fun seems to be the only choice.

[Phoenix]

Research has shown consistently that having fun while learning (v.s. sitting at your desk being talked at 6+hrs/day) works extremely well. Having fun is simply the right state for your brain to kick into 'learning mode', independent of motivation and 'focus'. I, for one, remember more information (and more accurate information, at that) from the Magic School Bus and Bill Nye than I do from my entire high school experience. Isn't that horrible?

Moreover, I had to re-learn, on my own time, all the outdated and erroneous crap I was taught back then... But I digress!

And it's not that I was simply a 'bad student' either. Sure, I didn't do most of my work, but I got in the 97th percentile on my SATs without any extra preparation.

However, they're still not making school fun. People are still taking 12+ years to learn and integrate information that should be possible to take in in about 4 or 5 at the most. If we had fun doing it. Thank god Go is a game!

[tekesta]

Fun is a great motivator, but there are indeed others, such as pride, money and impressing ladies. Unfortunately, regarding go, fun seems to be the only choice.

The analytical acuity and patient persistence that are developed with constant Go playing can help one to succeed with the ladies. Of course she will not fall for you right away, but two things are possible. One is that you can, with background info on what you are looking for in a woman, assess whether she is suitable as a friend or more than that. The other is that, upon finding out what she wants in a woman, you can, if you choose, change some things about yourself in order to become more appealing to her.

As for money, only the really good Go players can make a living by playing the game. However, important lessons in how money is used to help us realize our dreams and ambitions can be learned from constantly playing Go. Money is a tool to help us get things we need and want. In like manner a Go stone is a tool to help us realize our plans on the Go Board. By using either properly, we can make our dreams come true - whether in life or on the board. Of course, just as the novice investor is liable to lose a fortune in a bad investment at the worst possible time, a novice Go player can lose a game or three by playing the wrong moves at the wrong time.

I do not know much about pride, but the more Go one plays, the easier it is for one to keep their pride in check. As I have learned, a sober attitude is best when playing the game, since anything can happen. Life is almost identical in this aspect.