Question about the small Chinese opening

thirdfogie · Post by **thirdfogie** » Tue Jul 09, 2013 6:23 pm

I have been playing the small Chinese opening as Black with some success down at the 3-5 kyu
basement of UK go tournaments. A few days ago, an opponent played it for the first time against me,
and it was soon clear how little I really knew. All my information came from article 68 in
NewInGo (http://www.gogod.co.uk/NewInGo/NewInGo.htm).

That article says that White's best reply may be the sanrensei at b below, but I dislike
symmetrical and near-symmetrical whole-board shapes. A move at a is not
recommended because the simple reply at z is good for Black. That left a play at c.
My questions are about what comes next. I haven't got Kono Rin's book on the small
Chinese fuseki, and I can't read Japanese anyway.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$c Small Chinese opening, oriented as I saw the game. $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . b . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . c z . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . a . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Oren posted a professional game (http://www.lifein19x19.com/forum/viewto ... =13&t=8383)
which began as shown below and led to a big fight which Black won. That has also worked for me,
probably because my opponent was startled by the 1-point diagonal jump at

.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$c Result 1. Gu Lingyi vs Chen Yaoye $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . 1 . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . , 7 . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . 6 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . 2 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . 5 . . . , . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . , . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

I have tried the 1-point low pincer as Black, but the resulting Black formation on
the left feels too low and over-concentrated,

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$c Result 2. Small Chinese opening, 1-point pincer $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . b . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . 7 9 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . 6 3 X 5 . . . . , . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . 8 2 4 . 0 . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

My game continued like this.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$c thirdfogie (White) versus A.N. Other14 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . 2 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X a b . . . , . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . , c . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Now what? http://www.dailyjoseki.com shows joseki continuations for White at a, b and c.
The only continuation I knew during the game was the one starting at a as shown below.
Once again, this does not look good for White, at least to my inexpert eye.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$c Result 3. Possible joseki continuation after White attachment $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . 8 . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O O 6 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X 2 4 . . . , . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . 7 3 , 9 . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

The question is: do you prefer Result 1, Result 2 or Result 3 for White.

Here is what happened in the rest of our game, which turned into a tragedy for Black.
That illustrates the futility of a single-digit-kyu player worrying about
large-scale fuseki issues. But I still want to know the answer.

oren · Post by **oren** » Tue Jul 09, 2013 6:39 pm

This is the common continuation from that approach.

White can't extend further since black can split easily and black is satisfied that white has a smaller shape.

ez4u · Post by **ez4u** » Tue Jul 09, 2013 10:22 pm

Here is an example from the 1st round of the Mlily Cup played yesterday. White responded with the marked stone and play proceeded as shown. For more see go4go.net.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bc Guo Wenchao (White) - Zhang Wei; 1st Mlily Cup; 2013-07-09 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 8 . 9 . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 0 . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . 7 . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . 6 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . 1 . . . 2 5 . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . W . . . . 3 X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

drmwc · Post by **drmwc** » Wed Jul 10, 2013 3:09 am

As played, you can cut:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$c $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O O . . b . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X 6 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . 7 X O O . . . , . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . 3 2 X 1 8 . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . 5 4 9 0 . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . a . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

After b captures at a, you patach up at b for a nice result.

Life In 19x19

Question about the small Chinese opening

Question about the small Chinese opening

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Re: Question about the small Chinese opening

Re: Question about the small Chinese opening