#226: TIM82 vs. The Intrepid: Takemiya Style 2

The Intrepid · Post by **The Intrepid** » Mon Sep 02, 2013 11:14 pm

Here's the 2nd game where I'll be trying my luck using Takemiya style. However, this time I'll be playing White.

The game will employ Japanese rules, with players having free access to books. TIM82 said he doesn't plan on consulting pro game databases. However, I would like to do so very much. As compensation, I offer to play without komi. Is this acceptable to you, TIM82? If yes, please make your move. Good luck and have fun!

Overview of Takemiya Style:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bc $$ -------------------------------------- $$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .| $$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .| $$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .| $$ |. . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . .| $$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .| $$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .| $$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .| $$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .| $$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .| $$ |. . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . .| $$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .| $$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .| $$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .| $$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .| $$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .| $$ |. . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . .| $$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .| $$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .| $$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .| $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

TIM82 · Post by **TIM82** » Tue Sep 03, 2013 12:52 am

The Intrepid wrote:The game will employ Japanese rules, with players having free access to books. TIM82 said he doesn't plan on consulting pro game databases. However, I would like to do so very much. As compensation, I offer to play without komi. Is this acceptable to you, TIM82? If yes, please make your move. Good luck and have fun!

Blah. Seems like a silly reason to drop komi to me. Let there be komi, and I'll consult some databases if I feel like it. ;-)

Have a nice game! By the way, should I stay away from your other Malkovich-Takemiya?

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bc $$ -------------------------------------- $$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .| $$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .| $$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .| $$ |. . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , 1 . .| $$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .| $$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .| $$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .| $$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .| $$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .| $$ |. . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . .| $$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .| $$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .| $$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .| $$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .| $$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .| $$ |. . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . .| $$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .| $$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .| $$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .| $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

The Intrepid · Post by **The Intrepid** » Tue Sep 03, 2013 1:13 am

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bc $$ -------------------------------------- $$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .| $$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .| $$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .| $$ |. . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . .| $$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .| $$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .| $$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .| $$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .| $$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .| $$ |. . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . .| $$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .| $$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .| $$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .| $$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .| $$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .| $$ |. . . 2 . . . . . , . . . . . , . . .| $$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .| $$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .| $$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .| $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Feel free to follow my other Takemiya game, but don't read the hidden comments for the time being. Once the opening/early middle game concludes in both games, then it'll be fine.

TIM82 · Post by **TIM82** » Tue Sep 03, 2013 2:51 am

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bc $$ -------------------------------------- $$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .| $$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .| $$ |. . . 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .| $$ |. . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , 1 . .| $$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .| $$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .| $$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .| $$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .| $$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .| $$ |. . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . .| $$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .| $$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .| $$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .| $$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .| $$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .| $$ |. . . 2 . . . . . , . . . . . , . . .| $$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .| $$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .| $$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .| $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Trigger:

The Intrepid · Post by **The Intrepid** » Tue Sep 03, 2013 11:40 am

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm6 $$ -------------------------------------- $$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .| $$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .| $$ |. . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .| $$ |. . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . .| $$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .| $$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .| $$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .| $$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .| $$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .| $$ |. . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . .| $$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .| $$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .| $$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .| $$ |. . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .| $$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .| $$ |. . . O . 1 . . . , . . . . . O . . .| $$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .| $$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .| $$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .| $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Bantari · Post by **Bantari** » Tue Sep 03, 2013 2:52 pm

You guys are, of course, aware that Takmiya with White is a *totally* different animal than Takemiya with Black?
Just saying...

The Intrepid · Post by **The Intrepid** » Tue Sep 03, 2013 3:19 pm

Yes, it is, isn't it?

Bantari · Post by **Bantari** » Tue Sep 03, 2013 5:57 pm

The Intrepid wrote:Yes, it is, isn't it?

Sweet.
I get comfy and start the popcorn going.

TIM82 · Post by **TIM82** » Wed Sep 04, 2013 1:06 pm

Bantari: I have no clear idea of Takemiya-as-white. But I suppose that should make for more funny background entertainment for your popcorn munching?

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bc $$ -------------------------------------- $$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .| $$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .| $$ |. . . 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .| $$ |. . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , 1 . .| $$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .| $$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .| $$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .| $$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .| $$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .| $$ |. . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . .| $$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .| $$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .| $$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .| $$ |. . 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .| $$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .| $$ |. . . 2 . 6 . . . , . . . . . 4 . . .| $$ |. . 7 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .| $$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .| $$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .| $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Normally I would just play as below, another likely option for 8-9 being e.g. white A, black :b9:

below . This kind of game would be much more comfortable for me personally than what I chose here.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm7 $$ -------------------------------------- $$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .| $$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .| $$ |. . . X . 5 . 4 . . 2 . 3 . . . . . .| $$ |. . . , . . . . . , . . . . a , X . .| $$ |. . . . . . . 6 . . . . . . . . . . .| $$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .| $$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .| $$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .| $$ |. . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .| $$ |. . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . .| $$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .| $$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .| $$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .| $$ |. . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .| $$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .| $$ |. . . O . O . . . , . . . . . O . . .| $$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .| $$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .| $$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .| $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

However, learning comes not from comfort! :rambo:

Expected continuation 1

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm7 $$ -------------------------------------- $$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .| $$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .| $$ |. . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .| $$ |. . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . .| $$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .| $$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .| $$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .| $$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .| $$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .| $$ |. . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . .| $$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .| $$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .| $$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .| $$ |. . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .| $$ |. 4 6 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .| $$ |. 3 2 O . O . . . , . . . . . O . . .| $$ |. 5 1 . 9 0 . . . . . . . . . . . . .| $$ |. . . . 7 8 . . . . . . . . . . . . .| $$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .| $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Expected continuation 2. After 18, A is my sente which seems important in some corner sequences, and if I get to push at B white has to be careful about liberties. However, if white fixes around B, I currently intend to take C (I reserve the option to rethink this one

).

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm17 $$ -------------------------------------- $$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .| $$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .| $$ |. . . B . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .| $$ |. . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , B . .| $$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .| $$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .| $$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .| $$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .| $$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .| $$ |. . 3 , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . .| $$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .| $$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .| $$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .| $$ |2 1 X . . . . . . . . . . . . . c . .| $$ |. O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .| $$ |a X O O b O . . . , . . . . . W . . .| $$ |. X X . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . .| $$ |. . . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . .| $$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .| $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Basically what I'm doing can be summed as either or both of following:
* fooling with a cool sequence without understanding it fully
* playing a game of chicken: when is it big enough to kill/save my corner, and how much aji will be left?

A trigger below:
(about ten moves long). Intrepid: feel free to vary at any point, and if you want to play moves here one by one, just ignore this trigger.

The Intrepid · Post by **The Intrepid** » Wed Sep 04, 2013 2:02 pm

Triggers save a lot of time, so keep offering them. Also, if you prefer, I have nothing against you making triggers on the main diagram. No need to make a separate hide tag, as far as I'm concerned.

TIM82 · Post by **TIM82** » Fri Sep 06, 2013 12:09 am

The Intrepid wrote:Triggers save a lot of time, so keep offering them. Also, if you prefer, I have nothing against you making triggers on the main diagram. No need to make a separate hide tag, as far as I'm concerned.

Oh, I thought you would first decide on your response to my initial move, then peek at the trigger to see whether there is a continuation to your move or not. My mistake of not agreeing on this beforehand. No harm done, I'll continue offering these, but fully visible, and perhaps one move later in some situations.

The Intrepid · Post by **The Intrepid** » Fri Sep 06, 2013 2:11 am

Oh, we can do it that way, if you want. To make it definitive, which do you prefer: decide first then peek at trigger, or all at once? I'm fine with either so it's up to you.

The Intrepid · Post by **The Intrepid** » Fri Sep 06, 2013 3:07 am

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm13 $$ -------------------------------------- $$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .| $$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .| $$ |. . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .| $$ |. . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . .| $$ |. . . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .| $$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .| $$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .| $$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .| $$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .| $$ |. . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . .| $$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .| $$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .| $$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .| $$ |. . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .| $$ |. O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .| $$ |. X O O . O . . . , . . . . . O . . .| $$ |. X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .| $$ |. . . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . .| $$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .| $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

I accept the trigger partially. By the way, let's handle triggers this way: if the trigger is in a hide tag, then that will mean that we should decide on a move before looking at the hide tag. However, offering triggers/sequences in the open (to save time, for instance) should also be acceptable. I think this way will be best.

In Takemiya style, keeping sente and occupying the key points in the beginning is of paramount importance. For this reason, I did not complete the joseki all the way through. Besides, I do not have a stone between my conrner stones, so I don't see a great need to protect the bottom side, yet. It's more urgent to approach he top-left 3-4 stone. The reason why I'm approaching this stone is that I have influence toward it, as opposed to the other Black 3-4 stone.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm13 $$ -------------------------------------- $$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .| $$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .| $$ |. . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .| $$ |. . . , . . . . . , . . . . Q , X . .| $$ |. . . W . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .| $$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .| $$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .| $$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .| $$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .| $$ |. . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . .| $$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .| $$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .| $$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .| $$ |. . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .| $$ |. W W . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .| $$ |. X W W . W . . . , . . . . . Q . . .| $$ |. X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .| $$ |. . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . .| $$ |. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .| $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Clearly,

are better coordinated than :wt:

are.

TIM82 · Post by **TIM82** » Fri Sep 06, 2013 3:08 am

Ok. If it is the same the you, lets use hidden triggers, I'm more comfortable with those. So: if you see a hidden tag with "trigger:", first choose a move, then check if the trigger applies. Of course visible sequences are ok too - then there is no need ot decide on the move first, just to accept the proposed sequence or vary at any point.

Let's also confirm the komi size discussed in PM's before while we are fixing the facts: komi 6,5 right?

[Oh, you suggested the same solution as above while I was writing this. Good.]

The Intrepid · Post by **The Intrepid** » Fri Sep 06, 2013 3:32 am

Yes, we're thinking the same thing regarding triggers.

Komi of 6.5 is likewise agreeable.

Life In 19x19

#226: TIM82 vs. The Intrepid: Takemiya Style 2

#226: TIM82 vs. The Intrepid: Takemiya Style 2

Re: #226: TIM82 vs. The Intrepid: Takemiya Style 2

Re: #226: TIM82 vs. The Intrepid: Takemiya Style 2

Re: #226: TIM82 vs. The Intrepid: Takemiya Style 2

Re: #226: TIM82 vs. The Intrepid: Takemiya Style 2

Re: #226: TIM82 vs. The Intrepid: Takemiya Style 2

Re: #226: TIM82 vs. The Intrepid: Takemiya Style 2

Re: #226: TIM82 vs. The Intrepid: Takemiya Style 2

Re: #226: TIM82 vs. The Intrepid: Takemiya Style 2

Re: #226: TIM82 vs. The Intrepid: Takemiya Style 2

Re: #226: TIM82 vs. The Intrepid: Takemiya Style 2

Re: #226: TIM82 vs. The Intrepid: Takemiya Style 2

Re: #226: TIM82 vs. The Intrepid: Takemiya Style 2

Re: #226: TIM82 vs. The Intrepid: Takemiya Style 2

Re: #226: TIM82 vs. The Intrepid: Takemiya Style 2