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#226: TIM82 vs. The Intrepid: Takemiya Style 2
Posted: Mon Sep 02, 2013 11:14 pm
by The Intrepid
Here's the 2nd game where I'll be trying my luck using Takemiya style. However, this time I'll be playing White.
The game will employ Japanese rules, with players having free access to books. TIM82 said he doesn't plan on consulting pro game databases. However, I would like to do so very much. As compensation, I offer to play without komi. Is this acceptable to you, TIM82? If yes, please make your move. Good luck and have fun!
Overview of Takemiya Style:
For an overview of Takemiya style with Black, please see game
#225: The Intrepid vs Kirby: Takemiya Style . The main difference between playing this style with White as opposed to Black is that White is one move behind. The result is that, if Black goes for a moyo of his own, his moyo will grow quicker. White needs to be mindful of this. I'm not sure how exactly I'm going to deal with this problem, yet, but maybe I'll just have to give my opponent even more free territory along the edge than usual.
Let's see how the game develops.
$$Bc
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Bc
Re: #226: TIM82 vs. The Intrepid: Takemiya Style 2
Posted: Tue Sep 03, 2013 12:52 am
by TIM82
The Intrepid wrote: The game will employ Japanese rules, with players having free access to books. TIM82 said he doesn't plan on consulting pro game databases. However, I would like to do so very much. As compensation, I offer to play without komi. Is this acceptable to you, TIM82? If yes, please make your move. Good luck and have fun!
Blah. Seems like a silly reason to drop komi to me. Let there be komi, and I'll consult some databases if I feel like it.
Have a nice game! By the way, should I stay away from your other Malkovich-Takemiya?
$$Bc
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Bc
I take these games as learning possibilities, and there are a few things I would like to play with currently to understand them better:
Cross-fuseki, especially with something like below:
$$B Corner
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$B CornerSadly I suspect Takemiya may rule that one out, but if given possibility, I may well grap diagonal corners
Or this stuff, which seems a little more likely, although not guaranteed by any means.
viewtopic.php?f=13&t=8460 Oh, and the chosen move? 3-4 instead of 4-4 entices white to take top left instead of bottom left, giving me option to take bottom left.
Re: #226: TIM82 vs. The Intrepid: Takemiya Style 2
Posted: Tue Sep 03, 2013 1:13 am
by The Intrepid
$$Bc
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$BcFeel free to follow my other Takemiya game, but don't read the hidden comments for the time being. Once the opening/early middle game concludes in both games, then it'll be fine.
Re: #226: TIM82 vs. The Intrepid: Takemiya Style 2
Posted: Tue Sep 03, 2013 2:51 am
by TIM82
$$Bc
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$BcTrigger:
If you take last hoshi, then 5.
$$Bc
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Bc
Re: #226: TIM82 vs. The Intrepid: Takemiya Style 2
Posted: Tue Sep 03, 2013 11:40 am
by The Intrepid
$$Wcm6
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Wcm6
I struggled a bit trying to decide on a move here. I decided against tenuki-ing, which could have led to a double-approach by White to my bottom-left stone. Then, getting a moyo could prove problematic. Curiously, Takemiya himself did not play
in any of his games in this position. However, Gu Li, Lee Sedol, and Lee Changho have, so the move has to be good.
Re: #226: TIM82 vs. The Intrepid: Takemiya Style 2
Posted: Tue Sep 03, 2013 2:52 pm
by Bantari
You guys are, of course, aware that Takmiya with White is a *totally* different animal than Takemiya with Black?
Just saying...
Re: #226: TIM82 vs. The Intrepid: Takemiya Style 2
Posted: Tue Sep 03, 2013 3:19 pm
by The Intrepid
Yes, it is, isn't it?
Re: #226: TIM82 vs. The Intrepid: Takemiya Style 2
Posted: Tue Sep 03, 2013 5:57 pm
by Bantari
The Intrepid wrote: Yes, it is, isn't it?
Sweet.
I get comfy and start the popcorn going.
Re: #226: TIM82 vs. The Intrepid: Takemiya Style 2
Posted: Wed Sep 04, 2013 1:06 pm
by TIM82
Bantari: I have no clear idea of Takemiya-as-white. But I suppose that should make for more funny background entertainment for your popcorn munching?
$$Bc
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Bc
Normally I would just play as below, another likely option for 8-9 being e.g. white A, black
below . This kind of game would be much more comfortable for me personally than what I chose here.
$$Bcm7
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Bcm7However, learning comes not from comfort!
Expected continuation 1
$$Bcm7
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Bcm7Expected continuation 2. After 18, A is my sente which seems important in some corner sequences, and if I get to push at B white has to be careful about liberties. However, if white fixes around B, I currently intend to take C (I reserve the option to rethink this one
).
$$Bcm17
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Bcm17Basically what I'm doing can be summed as either or both of following:
* fooling with a cool sequence without understanding it fully
* playing a game of chicken: when is it big enough to kill/save my corner, and how much aji will be left?
A trigger below:
(about ten moves long). Intrepid: feel free to vary at any point, and if you want to play moves here one by one, just ignore this trigger.
$$Bcm7 17 at marked stone.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Bcm7 17 at marked stone.
Re: #226: TIM82 vs. The Intrepid: Takemiya Style 2
Posted: Wed Sep 04, 2013 2:02 pm
by The Intrepid
Triggers save a lot of time, so keep offering them. Also, if you prefer, I have nothing against you making triggers on the main diagram. No need to make a separate hide tag, as far as I'm concerned.
Re: #226: TIM82 vs. The Intrepid: Takemiya Style 2
Posted: Fri Sep 06, 2013 12:09 am
by TIM82
The Intrepid wrote: Triggers save a lot of time, so keep offering them. Also, if you prefer, I have nothing against you making triggers on the main diagram. No need to make a separate hide tag, as far as I'm concerned.
Oh, I thought you would first decide on your response to my initial move, then peek at the trigger to see whether there is a continuation to your move or not. My mistake of not agreeing on this beforehand. No harm done, I'll continue offering these, but fully visible, and perhaps one move later in some situations.
Re: #226: TIM82 vs. The Intrepid: Takemiya Style 2
Posted: Fri Sep 06, 2013 2:11 am
by The Intrepid
Oh, we can do it that way, if you want. To make it definitive, which do you prefer: decide first then peek at trigger, or all at once? I'm fine with either so it's up to you.
Re: #226: TIM82 vs. The Intrepid: Takemiya Style 2
Posted: Fri Sep 06, 2013 3:07 am
by The Intrepid
$$Bcm13
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Bcm13I accept the trigger partially. By the way, let's handle triggers this way: if the trigger is in a hide tag, then that will mean that we should decide on a move before looking at the hide tag. However, offering triggers/sequences in the open (to save time, for instance) should also be acceptable. I think this way will be best.
In Takemiya style, keeping sente and occupying the key points in the beginning is of paramount importance. For this reason, I did not complete the joseki all the way through. Besides, I do not have a stone between my conrner stones, so I don't see a great need to protect the bottom side, yet. It's more urgent to approach he top-left 3-4 stone. The reason why I'm approaching this stone is that I have influence toward it, as opposed to the other Black 3-4 stone.
$$Bcm13
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Bcm13Clearly,
are better coordinated than
are.
Re: #226: TIM82 vs. The Intrepid: Takemiya Style 2
Posted: Fri Sep 06, 2013 3:08 am
by TIM82
Ok. If it is the same the you, lets use hidden triggers, I'm more comfortable with those. So: if you see a hidden tag with "trigger:", first choose a move, then check if the trigger applies. Of course visible sequences are ok too - then there is no need ot decide on the move first, just to accept the proposed sequence or vary at any point.
Re: #226: TIM82 vs. The Intrepid: Takemiya Style 2
Posted: Fri Sep 06, 2013 3:32 am
by The Intrepid
Yes, we're thinking the same thing regarding triggers.
Komi of 6.5 is likewise agreeable.
in any of his games in this position. However, Gu Li, Lee Sedol, and Lee Changho have, so the move has to be good.
below . This kind of game would be much more comfortable for me personally than what I chose here.
are better coordinated than 
are.