Low Chinese vs. Mini Chinese

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moyoaji
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Low Chinese vs. Mini Chinese

Post by moyoaji »

This game between Lee Sedol and Choi Cheolhan eventually explodes into complex patterns and fights everywhere, but I was wondering about their openings. I was wondering if anyone here knows more about this fuseki choice. Pros and cons for white in particular. I may want to try playing it as white against mini/micros.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c Lee Sedol 9p (B) vs. Choi Cheolhan 9p (W)
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . 1 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 8 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 6 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 2 . . . . . , . . . . . , 3 . . |
$$ | . . . . . 5 . . . . 7 . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
It is only the second time I have ever seen this combo occur in professional play (both times the same way) - I wish I could find the first game. It was about a year ago I saw it on Go4Go. I was able to find another one just now by browsing through games on Go4Go and just looking for the pattern (although it is a mini Chinese variant and black is Choi Cheolhan, ironically enough - http://www.go4go.net/go/games/sgfview/31169) White loses that time, but again it breaks out into a big fight. I feel like white's inside approach at :w10: and then going for the corner was a mistake and that he should have approached from the top, but I'm not 8p so what do I know? Other than that I couldn't find the game I was looking for and didn't see another example of this on 11 pages of games from late 2012.

That aside, does anyone have any insights into the advantages and disadvantages for this as white? I love the Low Chinese and don't like playing against the Mini or Micro Chinese, but I'm thinking this might be a good way for me to play as white against a threat of a Mini/Micro Chinese fuseki. I play the Low Chinese a lot and this could get me into a situation where I am comfortable at least one the left side of the board. The problem I see is that it looks like black is getting a lot out of this opening.

Because white isn't splitting right away black's moyo could be huge. And Lee Sedol's next move is one only a pro would play - it is a very strong response.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c Lee Sedol 9p (B) vs. Choi Cheolhan 9p (W)
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . 9 . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . a . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
From this white cannot approach from the top, which would be ideal for the Low Chinese, and has a harder time splitting the right because black's top corner is more solid. White's answer is to approach the Chinese on the bottom from the outside at 'a', but this leads to a lot of complexity. Fighting consumes the board rather quickly. I would like to add this fuseki into my games as white, but I also don't like starting an early fight as it often just makes the game about that one fight (the same reason I don't play 5-3s and taisha just for the lols).

Are there ways white can more peacefully handle the right in this situation? Or is the difficulty of avoiding complex variations and fights the reason pros don't play this way as white more often?
"You have to walk before you can run. Black 1 was a walking move.
I blushed inwardly to recall the ignorant thoughts that had gone through
my mind before, when I had not realized the true worth of Black 1."
-Kageyama Toshiro on proper moves
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John Fairbairn
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Re: Low Chinese vs. Mini Chinese

Post by John Fairbairn »

We (GoGoD) have 10 games with this pattern and it goes back to 1979, but you are right to label it unusual, because the pros seem unsure what to do next. There have been six different choices for Black's next move, with the right-side star point being a marginal favourite. Can't say whether it's good or bad for White, but leaving Black unsure over his next move may be seen as a plus. This assumes White's play is actually OK, of course, but in the tiny sample so far Black has a 60-40 win ratio.

All other Black moves have been on the upper side. One thing he does NOT do is invade on the left. And as you point out, White in this game shows similar pro restraint.
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