televising western go online

[floating]

This line I said on ogs game server

[17:30] floating: again chess is served for free for fans to build the fan base.. while all go tournaments are hidden behind asian pay tv http://new.livestream.com/chess24/lcc2013

just now made me create this account and ponder the same thing here among larger crowd. For those viewing this post later, the livestream link had a live stream from a london chess classic, a speed chess tournament, including commentators commenting and playing out possible moves etc.

In my opinion go needs something similar. Getting yourself a baduk tv account or to rely on other asian go tv programs (which are hard to find for most I guess) is too underground.

I lived in japan for a year earlier, and the weekly go program on sunday mornings on nhk was something that I knew I will be missing when I move out. The program showed a nhk cup match in its 90 minutes tv slot. Here's a clip from one of the many shows http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DT9Qf3kC19w

Now Disc Golf, another lower resource sport is in a way in a similar position (as go in west). One way the way the enthusiasts in disc golf are creating something for the sport is a monthly disc golf show on youtube http://www.youtube.com/user/DiscGolfMonthlyTV . So maybe something like that could work with go too.

So where would this be possible with lower costs? At the basics, maybe a crew in one of usa's big cities (that have at least 4-8 high dan players) could organize a tournament/league of this type. One game per week, would 8 players be participating in a round robin format, would this league last for 28 weeks! Brand it as an American TV League or a New York TV Cup or whatever, have a glittering website, broadcast the games online for free, unite western go more, win.

With the current web technologies and resources, us fans could build such a program for ourselves low budget. The know-how is also there. I know couple of dan level go players who are streaming go board and teaching with audio, and I bet there are many more. What you think?

edit to add: I am aware of eurogotv etc broadcasts, but I'm looking for a next step from there

[alejo]

Are you aware of English Baduk TV? Not that I'm getting any commissions... but you may want to check Go Game Guru's service.
You have 24h go streaming in korean and some of the games and lessons are subbed.

[floating]

That is cool, I didn't know.

However for promotional purposes something free should be better. For example on this one chat group I am in, among them there are some chess players, and today the discussion turned into those chess games on that livestream, and then I wished that I could paste a go live stream link some day :p Actually some of the people there are interested in go a bit.. something like that

Personally also that is kinda too much (material and money wise) for me. The way how it is in Japan is what would be the best fit for a casual player like me. Once a week 90minutes on a free television channel.

[oren]

Personally also that is kinda too much (material and money wise) for me. The way how it is in Japan is what would be the best fit for a casual player like me. Once a week 90minutes on a free television channel.

This is probably nitpicking, but NHK Educational isn't a free channel I thought. You have to get cable/satellite.

Also you could say it's two hours if you count the Go Focus show + NHK tournament games.

The problem is with free, you will never get that level of quality. Baduk TV has done some free game reviews in English and put them on youtube. It's a huge difference between the quality of those and what you see on their tv station.

[floating]

This is probably nitpicking, but NHK Educational isn't a free channel I thought. You have to get cable/satellite.

Oh.. well it was free, or was so on analog network 7-8 years ago :p

[Boidhre]

Personally also that is kinda too much (material and money wise) for me. The way how it is in Japan is what would be the best fit for a casual player like me. Once a week 90minutes on a free television channel.

Not free but:

http://internetgoschool.com/ Guo Juan's Lectures are 1 Euro each and access may be purchased 1 Euro's worth at a time. No commitment to a subscription. (There are free lectures that were paid for by national go associations as well as the ones listed there)

https://badukmovies.com/ Most lectures are subscriber only but there are free lectures and at 8 Euro a month it's not very expensive.

I suppose crucially though, these aren't really about advertising go as much as helping people to improve at go.

[floating]

Good stuff there. That badukmovies looks similar to the discgolfmonthlytv that I mentioned. Only difference is that you have to pay, and judging from the thumbnail images and checking couple of the free links, not all shows are showing guys reviewing games, and that there is no actual ongoing game while they are commenting.

Adding those feats and serving the show also "live", and ..then I have asked too much

[Kirby]

Good stuff there. That badukmovies looks similar to the discgolfmonthlytv that I mentioned. Only difference is that you have to pay, and judging from the thumbnail images and checking couple of the free links, not all shows are showing guys reviewing games, and that there is no actual ongoing game while they are commenting.

Adding those feats and serving the show also "live", and ..then I have asked too much

If you want free resources for learning go, there's plenty:
* YouTube Go Videos (eg. Bat's lectures, Nick Sibicky's videos, etc.)
* Senseis Library
* Pro game records on numerous sites
* This forum
* Occasional free instruction on go servers
* Eidogo for Joseki Variations
* DailyJoseki's free functionality for searching patterns
* GoProblems.com
...

If your instruction has to be in video format, the YouTube go lectures are the only ones I've mentioned in the above list, but nonetheless, there's a lot to learn online about go. Of course, the resources above lack quality, and sometimes the information you might learn is inaccurate or incorrect. If that bothers you, what's wrong with paying a bit of money for these services?

To make an analogy, complaining about what's currently available online seems like complaining about the poor quality of free food you might receive at some event. If you want to have a nice dinner, pay a bit of money. If you don't want to pay, you can still survive by eating free food. And in the case of free go materials, there's a lot of it online.

[floating]

I am looking for it for entertainment, which would also work as a way to get in more potential players. These potential players are not ones who would want to pay at that moment, as for them it would be to just to have peek at it or to familiarize themselves with go. Sure there is already entertaining go stuff, but I have just been trying to describe something that I would think is interesting enough and is possible to do with low budget. Broadcasting event live is efficient entertainer.

I am guessing that there are other games and sports with not really larger userbase than what western go has, yet in their sports there are people who are promoting their sport in this described fashion without not having the money in their eyes, e.g. disc golf and popular computer games. For some of those in the disc golf scene the broadcasting etc started as part of their hobby. Although with the disc golf, the discgolfplanet.tv, who broadcasted events live for free, turned into subscription payment format this year (after couple years of totally free live events). There are still some free live tournaments with commentary though, and there are stuff like that discgolfmonthlytv mentioned earlier.

I guess we can't compare with that chess livestream example, as there are so much more people involved with chess. When it comes to computer games, I guess there are quite many multi-layer (more than one camera(?)+ commentary) periodical videos and events available on youtube and twitch.tv. Not so often recurring example would be some of those quakelive and starcraft tournament broadcasts, though these guys were sponsored well probably.

[Drew]

http://www.weiqitv.com/ is something I recently came across and really like. It seems to be almost entirely free. If you understand Chinese then you'll love it. If you don't you can still get the gist of most lessons.

Here's the inaugural lesson. It's 16 minutes and explores the possibilities of starting with 3 star points in a line.

http://www.weiqitv.com/play.php?vid=24& ... =1&index=1

[floating]

That looks very good, wish I knew chinese! If I understood my web browsers auto-translation correctly, they have a live broadcast of "world classic" in 17th December. Wonder if they live broadcast there often..

edit to add:

Okay. This is a coincidence... It's the World Mind Games, and actually there is a free go broadcast with english commentary LIVE on youtube right now! Exactly what I have been asking for :p

Here's the live stream: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2UXdONkehi0

edit2:

The broadcast ended. The next broadcasts with english commentary will apparently be in 2 days 20 hours and 3 days 21 hours, which would be 9am EET on sunday, and 8am EET on monday.

[wineandgolover]

If you want free resources for learning go, there's plenty:
...

If that bothers you, what's wrong with paying a bit of money for these services?
...

To make an analogy, complaining about what's currently available online seems like complaining about the poor quality of free food you might receive at some event.

I think you are missing Floating's point completely. (Floating point, heehee)

I believe he is suggesting a live video game/ commentary for promotional purposes. Nobody will pay for proselytization. He is suggesting that a cool looking video service might help grow the game. I, for one, think that is an admirable goal, and welcome new ideas.

Floating, does something like Twitch (L19's not-very-active Shapenaji or odnihs) start to meet your needs? If we had many strong players doing this, it would be pretty cool. Twitch has the advantage of being a game-streaming server, so like-minded potential converts are already there.

[daal]

There is also EuroGoTV.com which does live broadcasts of games from European tournaments - unfortunately without commentary or analysis.

[hyperpape]

At the US Go Congress, there are public commentaries on top games for the Ing masters. Those might be a good target for broadcast. The pro qualification and the Cotsen could also provide good targets.

[floating]

Although not quite the next-gen format, I'll add one niec and energetic twitch streamer http://www.twitch.tv/meepsie to that wineandgolover's twitch streamers list. Meepsie is currently an active streamer, and for example yesterday he talked about setting up a schedule for his streams (beginner's day, 5-10k day and 1-5kyu day at different days or so). Btw wineandgolover: the shapenaji's link points to odnihs' page, but I managed to navigate to shapenaji's

Would definitely want to see the usgo using the format they used today in world mind games (youtube) at such events mentioned in previous post!