The impenetrable wall at 6 kyu

peti29 · Post by **peti29** » Mon Feb 17, 2014 3:17 am

Hi,

I've been playing go on and off for more than 10 years now (almost exclusively on KGS). In fact I just checked the KGS archives and I registered my first account (which has been deleted multiple times since due to inactivity) back in 2002.
I feel I'm stuck really hard at 6k. Looking at the archives I see I faced a wall at 14k some 7 years ago and then I somehow jumped it and found myself at 8k. I've been around 6-8k ever since.

Recently I found Nick Sibicky's excellent lectures on youtube. And it gave me a new momentum to want to improve. The problem is, those lectures are aimed at double digit kyu players. And while they are still interesting and contain some really handy tips and insight, they are a little bit slow paced for me and I'm unfortunately very low on free time.

Is there something similar maybe for single digit kyu players available?

I'm not aiming at rapid improvement, I'd be happy with a slow, steady improve while keeping the game fun - I feel I can't afford a focused learning effort because I'd just end up putting go aside.

But here is the problem. I'm starting to believe, this wall at 6k can not be passed through step by step. It needs to be jumped over. In an attempt I checked Nick's archives to see how he managed to pass this wall: and he didn't. He just teleported to the other side. 8k one day, 4k on the other.
This again makes me to suspect that there is some important realization that would catapult people over the wall. If only I knew what it was...

RobertJasiek · Post by **RobertJasiek** » Mon Feb 17, 2014 3:25 am

peti29 wrote:I feel I'm stuck really hard at 6k. [...] this wall at 6k can not be passed through step by step. It needs to be jumped over.

Some players hit this wall, other players jump over it. I skipped 6k when improving from 7k to 5k immediately. How? I had read a few suitable books for that purpose and spent very much time on playing.

Umsturz · Post by **Umsturz** » Mon Feb 17, 2014 4:16 am

Hi we all have been there. Try to immerse yourself more in the game, without thinking to much about "the wall". Reading good books will help (see Roberts new Post) and playing and reviewing a lot of long games. A couple of month ago I also thought I was stuck around 6k, but now I can feel that I am slowly moving beyond the wall.
I think you see other players "jump" over the wall because you only see their kgs-rank and not the work they put in to the "jump" over the wall. In my opinion it is a slow and steady process not a single jump.
Have fun! ;-)

alejo · Post by **alejo** » Mon Feb 17, 2014 5:04 am

I'm currently 4-5k at KGS, I was stuck at 7-8k for a while... I got over it by fixing my greed. Allowing my opponent to gain some territory while I get a bigger one. Avoiding suicidal invasions was the key for my improvement.

I'm still working on improving my fuseki... a suggestion made by L19 users... :bow:

PeterN · Post by **PeterN** » Mon Feb 17, 2014 5:52 am

I'm at almost the exact same wall, I've been at 6k since October now and I seem to be climbing it until I face a 4k player at which point I tend to be demolished even with my 2 handicap stones. It feels like there's a complete difference between the average 5k and the average 4k. But the rank graph is slowly climbing! :rambo:

Perhaps it's just an accumulation of small things or perhaps there is some aspect missing from your game almost entirely, at some point we'll run up against people who can largely exploit that.

PeterN

EdLee · Post by **EdLee** » Mon Feb 17, 2014 7:04 am

Hi peti29,

PeterN wrote:Perhaps it's just an accumulation of small things or perhaps there is some aspect missing from your game almost entirely

Yes, and yes.

Peti, you may consider to post your serious games here for reviews (or on KGS, etc.). If you're lucky, you'll get some good reviews.
Lectures are fine; books are fine. But somebody still needs to look at your games and points out what you're doing right,
and what you're doing wrong -- that person is either you or someone else.
And lectures and books are slightly different than a good teacher who looks at your moves specifically.

Also, any time someone says they broke a barrier, in addition to asking how they did it (e.g., through books, help from a teacher, etc.),
make sure to ask at what age they started Go, and at what age they made the breakthrough.

The rate of improvement at age 9 is slightly different than at 45.

peti29 wrote:I'm not aiming at rapid improvement, I'd be happy with a slow, steady improve while keeping the game fun

Nice.

peti29 · Post by **peti29** » Mon Feb 17, 2014 9:11 am

Well for example here is a game I played yesterday (I was black).
This is not particularly a good game to ask advice about, but maybe it's good to show you where I am.

I made several mistakes but probably I was still ahead until I made an absolute stupid game losing mistake.

(this point is out of order but this was the main feature of this game for me)
- I was very proud about the ladder I set up early in the game (not something I normally do). Even though later I became lazy and played _two_ unnecessary moves to "secure" it.

- wC15 surprised me (I expected F16) but I think I came out good with that ladder (even after the B-52 shape :p)
- bH4 should probably be at H2
- bK5 was probably paranoid but I really didn't want that nice moyo get somehow destroyed.
- wN5 was severe. I didn't see it coming.
- for some reason I felt good about how I handled the upper right corner invasion, I can't recall now why though.
- not playing E2 lost the game for me. I tried to reduce the damage with that KO but it didn't turn out too well.

I'd appreciate any advice you may have.

Bill Spight · Post by **Bill Spight** » Mon Feb 17, 2014 9:16 am

Find a teacher. A shodan or better.

Good luck!

quantumf · Post by **quantumf** » Mon Feb 17, 2014 11:51 am

From around 8k to 3k I found the same thing worked at each level: reducing the blunder rate. Of course I was also reading books, playing games, having them reviewed, all the usual things. But in most games I lost it was because I committed too many blunders (for my current level at that time). I don't really know how to reduce blunders, except I guess to focus on how unpleasant is to lose a won game for a moment of inattention, and use that painful feeling to help me concentrate. I've also learnt thru experience that an excellent way to lose a game is to get confident that the game is won and to relax.

Cidragon · Post by **Cidragon** » Mon Feb 17, 2014 12:14 pm

well, first start with the pilars for improvement. play games, review them, solve problems and read go books.

here some pages talking about that:

http://gogameguru.com/how-to-get-better-at-go/
http://mechner.com/david/go/improve.html
http://senseis.xmp.net/?BenjaminTeuber% ... comeStrong

skydyr · Post by **skydyr** » Mon Feb 17, 2014 1:10 pm

Regarding the game you posted:

One thing I didn't mention is that black's joseki choice in the bottom right seems a bit weird, and this joseki is probably on its way to being discarded. Attaching underneath at R5 or pincering both seem more normal.

Bill Spight · Post by **Bill Spight** » Mon Feb 17, 2014 1:28 pm

One, you made a lot of plays that just aimed at making territory for yourself. That's inefficient. Bad habit.

Two, you made a lot of small plays. Related to point one, but worse.

Three, you failed to attack. Also related to point one.

Avoiding these bad habits can gain you a couple of stones with the technical skills that you now have. Attacking, OC, could backfire if your opponent is a better fighter. But on balance it will be a winner for you.

Four, you failed to seal off the center when you had a chance.

Five, you missed the double sente.

Six, you failed to seal off the bottom left corner.

Seven, you then made ko instead of life.

These last are technical points, but the technique involved is not difficult.

peti29 · Post by **peti29** » Mon Feb 17, 2014 2:30 pm

skydyr, Bill Spight, thank you for your insightful comments on my game!
Some of them were true eye-openers. As if I was looking straight at something yet still failing to notice.
I did have a bad feeling playing some of the moves both of you labeled bad, so maybe I'm not totally hopeless

.
I see I need to play more aggressively, though I don't think I could pull off such a masterful attack as shown in the top right corner - yet

.

I'd also like to thank all other people for their advice. Hopefully I'll be able to get better eventually!

EdLee · Post by **EdLee** » Mon Feb 17, 2014 9:45 pm

peti, Listen to Bill.

A bit more info on why your :b44:

attach is bad:

LarryHH · Post by **LarryHH** » Tue Feb 18, 2014 2:12 am

Peti29,
Reading ability? Have three ways to live or to reach your goal.

Fundamentals? (read the book, Lessons in the Fundamentals)
Read and study a book on good shape. (Making Good Shape: Mastering the Basics, Volume 3) 245 problems.
There are several good books by Rob van Zeijst and Richard Bozulich to read and study.
The Workshop Lectures by Yi Lun Yang. Six short volumes. EXCELLENT lessons. Clear, large format.
Single Digit Kyu Game Commentaries by Yuan Zhou. These are EXCELLENT commentaries on kyu level games, ~4 to 8 kyu players. They make MANY mistakes.
Direction of play? (read the book, Direction of Play)

Are you happy to capture the small group in gote?
Kyu players make many errors.
Priority of moves? Urgent > Important. Big > Small. Double sente > sente > reverse sente > gote.

Your 2-stone game of 16 February, 2014:
W29 atari. You can divide, in gote.
B48 play at H2 to connect underneath.
B58, capture by geta, in gote. Read. Can the single W stone escape? No. White gets sente!
B104?
B166 protect the cut at E2 instead of a ko fight? You win the ko fight, in gote, again. White takes sente and quickly makes 10+ points.

My heuristic for 5 Kyu: Can you reduce a group to bulky five and kill it?
Can you enclose your opponent's group, can you squeeze it from the outside to a bulky five eye-shape, then place a stone at the vital spot to kill it?
Study life and death problems.

Life In 19x19

The impenetrable wall at 6 kyu

The impenetrable wall at 6 kyu

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