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 Post subject: Re: 154. illuck vs. Celebrir
Post #81 Posted: Thu Feb 09, 2012 8:26 am 
Lives in sente

Posts: 1223
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KGS: illluck
Tygem: Trickprey
OGS: illluck
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm61 illluck vs. Celebrir - Prisoners: 0-1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O . O . . O . X . O . X . . X . . |
$$ | O . O X . . . . X , . . O O X , . . . |
$$ | . O X . . . . O . X . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . X X . . . . . . . . . O . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . O X . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . O . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X O O . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . X . , X . . O O O X . . |
$$ | . . O . . X . . . . X . X X . X X . . |
$$ | . . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

That wedge potential has been bothering me for a while now, so I'll fix it.

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 Post subject: Re: 154. illuck vs. Celebrir
Post #82 Posted: Thu Feb 09, 2012 8:49 am 
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Posts: 353
Liked others: 36
Was liked: 14
Rank: German 1k
KGS: 1.Dan
OGS: 4k
Universal go server handle: Celebrir
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm61 illluck vs. Celebrir - Prisoners: 0-1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O . O . . O . X . O . X . . X . . |
$$ | O . O X . . . . X , . . O O X , . . . |
$$ | . O X . . . 2 O . X . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . X X . . . . . . . . . O . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . O X . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . O . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X O O . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . X . , X . . O O O X . . |
$$ | . . O . . X . . . . X . X X . X X . . |
$$ | . . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Damn, seems like he sees my attack coming... I think I don't have to block here directly. I get a stronger position into the center but I don't think I have big weaknesses:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 illluck vs. Celebrir - Dia. 1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O . O 5 3 O . X . O . X . . X . . |
$$ | O . O X . 6 2 1 X , . . O O X , . . . |
$$ | . O X . . . O O . X . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . X X . . . . . . . . . O . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . O X . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . O . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X O O . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . X . , X . . O O O X . . |
$$ | . . O . . X . . . . X . X X . X X . . |
$$ | . . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 illluck vs. Celebrir - Dia.2a
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 8 . 9 6 . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O 7 O 4 5 O . X . O . X . . X . . |
$$ | O . O X . 3 1 2 X , . . O O X , . . . |
$$ | . O X . . 0 O O . X . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . X X . . . . . . . . . O . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . O X . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . O . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X O O . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . X . , X . . O O O X . . |
$$ | . . O . . X . . . . X . X X . X X . . |
$$ | . . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 illluck vs. Celebrir - Dia.2b
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O 2 X O . 4 . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O X O O X O . X . O . X . . X . . |
$$ | O . O X 1 X X O X , . . O O X , . . . |
$$ | . O X 3 . O O O . X . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . X X . . . . . . . . . O . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . O X . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . O . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X O O . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . X . , X . . O O O X . . |
$$ | . . O . . X . . . . X . X X . X X . . |
$$ | . . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 illluck vs. Celebrir - Dia.3
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . 9 . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . 4 3 . . 7 8 . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O . O . 6 O 5 X . O . X . . X . . |
$$ | O . O X . . 2 1 X , . . O O X , . . . |
$$ | . O X . . . O O . X . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . X X . . . . . . . . . O . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . O X . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , a . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . O . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X O O . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . X . , X . . O O O X . . |
$$ | . . O . . X . . . . X . X X . X X . . |
$$ | . . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

The worst seems to be that he makes an eye. However, if I get sente here I would be happy to play 'a' (in Dia.3)

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 Post subject: Re: 154. illuck vs. Celebrir
Post #83 Posted: Thu Feb 09, 2012 11:53 am 
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm61 illluck vs. Celebrir - Prisoners: 0-1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O . O . . O . X . O . X . . X . . |
$$ | O . O X . . . . X , . . O O X , . . . |
$$ | . O X . . . O O . X . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . X X . . . . . . . . . O . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . O X . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O . 3 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . O . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X O O . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . X . , X . . O O O X . . |
$$ | . . O . . X . . . . X . X X . X X . . |
$$ | . . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

I had anticipated a solid connect instead, this makes the area less interesting for me, at the cost of slightly worse edge endgame. Hard to say if it's better, but I do have to be more careful about my one-point jumps group. Nevertheless, I think it's hard to really attack (especially now I have more edge room), so I'll take this big yose instead.

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 Post subject: Re: 154. illuck vs. Celebrir
Post #84 Posted: Fri Feb 10, 2012 4:50 am 
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Posts: 353
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Rank: German 1k
KGS: 1.Dan
OGS: 4k
Universal go server handle: Celebrir
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm61 illluck vs. Celebrir - Prisoners: 0-1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O . O . . O . X . O . X . . X . . |
$$ | O . O X . . . . X , . . O O X , . . . |
$$ | . O X . . . O O . X . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . X X . . . . . . . . . O . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . O X . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . 4 . . . O . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . O . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X O O . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . X . , X . . O O O X . . |
$$ | . . O . . X . . . . X . X X . X X . . |
$$ | . . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm61 illluck vs. Celebrir - Prisoners: 0-1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O . O . . O . X . O . X . . X . . |
$$ | O . O X . . . . X , . . O O X , . . . |
$$ | . O X . . . O O . X . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . X X . . . . . . . . . O . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . O X . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . X . . . . . . a . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . c . . . O . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . d . . . . . . b . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . O . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X O O . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . X . , X . . O O O X . . |
$$ | . . O . . X . . . . X . X X . X X . . |
$$ | . . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

I have to admit, that 'a' was a good spot for me which I missed, which I missed because I concentrated on the bottom. I don't know whether 'a' would be sente (didn't thought about it that much) but it would have been nice and at least I should have thought about it.
However, now it seems to small to play at 'b'. It would make his move even better because he gets sente. Instead I'll play at 'c', which should make much more points than 'b'. If he play at 'b' now, I'll play at 'd'. If he reduces my answer will depend on the move he uses.

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 Post subject: Re: 154. illuck vs. Celebrir
Post #85 Posted: Fri Feb 10, 2012 5:03 am 
Tengen
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@Celebrir:

Why did you play that :w64: when the previous move you'd been looking at:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm61 illluck vs. Celebrir - Prisoners: 0-1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O . O . . O . X . O . X . . X . . |
$$ | O . O X . . . . X , . . O O X , . . . |
$$ | . O X . . . O O . X . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . X X . . . . . . . . . O . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . O X . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , 4 C . . . O . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . O . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X O O . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . X . , X . . O O O X . . |
$$ | . . O . . X . . . . X . X X . X X . . |
$$ | . . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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 Post subject: Re: 154. illuck vs. Celebrir
Post #86 Posted: Fri Feb 10, 2012 5:37 am 
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Posts: 353
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Universal go server handle: Celebrir
topazg wrote:
@Celebrir:

Why did you play that :w64: when the previous move you'd been looking at:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm61 illluck vs. Celebrir - Prisoners: 0-1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O . O . . O . X . O . X . . X . . |
$$ | O . O X . . . . X , . . O O X , . . . |
$$ | . O X . . . O O . X . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . X X . . . . . . . . . O . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . O X . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , 4 C . . . O . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . O . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X O O . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . X . , X . . O O O X . . |
$$ | . . O . . X . . . . X . X X . X X . . |
$$ | . . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Sorry, forgot that I mentioned this before. When I took a closer look I found a variation that I missed before and don't like:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 illluck vs. Celebrir - Variation
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O . O . . O . X . O . X . . X . . |
$$ | O . O X . . . . X , . . O O X , . . . |
$$ | . O X . . . O O . X 0 9 . . X . . . . |
$$ | . X X . . . . . . . 8 7 O . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X 6 5 . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . 4 3 O . . O X . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . X 2 1 . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , O . . . . O . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . O . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X O O . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . X . , X . . O O O X . . |
$$ | . . O . . X . . . . X . X X . X X . . |
$$ | . . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 illluck vs. Celebrir - Variation
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O . O . . O . X 4 O 3 X . . X . . |
$$ | O . O X . . . . X , 2 1 O O X , . . . |
$$ | . O X . . . O O . X O X . . X . . . . |
$$ | . X X . . . . . . 6 O X O 5 . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X O X . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O X O . . O X . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . X O X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , O 7 . 9 . O . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . 8 0 . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . O . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X O O . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . X . , X . . O O O X . . |
$$ | . . O . . X . . . . X . X X . X X . . |
$$ | . . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 illluck vs. Celebrir - Variation
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O . O . . O . X O O X X . . X . . |
$$ | O . O X . . . . X , O X O O X , . . . |
$$ | . O X . . . O O . X O X . . X . . . . |
$$ | . X X . . . . . . O O X O X . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . 3 . . . X O X . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O X O . . O X . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . X O X . . 1 2 . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , O X . X . O . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . O . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X O O . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . X . , X . . O O O X . . |
$$ | . . O . . X . . . . X . X X . X X . . |
$$ | . . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Both lose something here but I think my lose would be bigger. Besides B gets sente to play something like :b3:

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 Post subject: Re: 154. illuck vs. Celebrir
Post #87 Posted: Fri Feb 10, 2012 5:42 am 
Tengen
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@Celebrir

Yeah, that line was concerning me too, I did wonder if that had been the reason :)

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 Post subject: Re: 154. illuck vs. Celebrir
Post #88 Posted: Fri Feb 10, 2012 6:05 am 
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topazg wrote:
@Celebrir

Yeah, that line was concerning me too, I did wonder if that had been the reason :)


First I missed that I have to play :w4: and wanted to play :w4: at :b5: :roll: Would be a typical mistake for me, but luckily I have more time in this game :)


EDIT: Something that just jumped to my mind:

What if I play like this ?
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 illluck vs. Celebrir - Variation
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O . O . . O . X O O X X . . X . . |
$$ | O . O X . . . . X , O X O O X , . . . |
$$ | . O X . . . O O . X O X . . X . . . . |
$$ | . X X . . . . . . . O X O X . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X O X . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . 1 . . O X O . . O X . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . X O X . . 6 7 . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , O 2 . 4 . O . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . 3 5 . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . O . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X O O . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . X . , X . . O O O X . . |
$$ | . . O . . X . . . . X . X X . X X . . |
$$ | . . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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 Post subject: Re: 154. illuck vs. Celebrir
Post #89 Posted: Fri Feb 10, 2012 8:41 am 
Lives in sente

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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm61 illluck vs. Celebrir - Prisoners: 0-1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O . O . . O . X . O . X . . X . . |
$$ | O . O X . . . . X , . . O O X , . . . |
$$ | . O X . . . O O . X . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . X X . . . . . . . . . O . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . 5 . . . . O . . O X . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . O . . . O . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . O . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X O O . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . X . , X . . O O O X . . |
$$ | . . O . . X . . . . X . X X . X X . . |
$$ | . . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I want to strengthen the group to avoid being attacked (white has some splitting attack potential on that weak group and the left side group). I also want to strengthen the group in order for a deeper reduction of white's N8 area. A side benefit is that I may also get some points if white tries to expand the N8 area.

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 Post subject: Re: 154. illuck vs. Celebrir
Post #90 Posted: Fri Feb 10, 2012 8:49 am 
Tengen
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topazg wrote:
@Celebrir
Yeah, that line was concerning me too, I did wonder if that had been the reason :)
Topagz:
actually i like his previous move. That variation is good for white so no need to worry. And lasr peep is not sente so black will be losing big.

_________________
"The more we think we know about
The greater the unknown"

Words by neil peart, music by geddy lee and alex lifeson

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 Post subject: Re: 154. illuck vs. Celebrir
Post #91 Posted: Fri Feb 10, 2012 11:44 am 
Judan

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Yeah, I don't see how Celebrir could consider that trade and then reject if as good for black, it looks great for white to me. Black only gets 10 points in the middle, and white gets at least than from killing k17. But on top of that white gets very thick with loads of centre potential.

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 Post subject: Re: 154. illuck vs. Celebrir
Post #92 Posted: Sat Feb 11, 2012 1:30 am 
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm61 illluck vs. Celebrir - Prisoners: 0-1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O . O . . O . X . O . X . . X . . |
$$ | O . O X . . . . X , . . O O X , . . . |
$$ | . O X . . . O O . X . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . X X . . . . . . . . . O . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X . . . . O . . O X . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . O . . . O . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . 6 . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . O . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X O O . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . X . , X . . O O O X . . |
$$ | . . O . . X . . . . X . X X . X X . . |
$$ | . . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I guess this is an easy one. This seems to be key point between our moyos now. If I play elsewere this looks big for him:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 illluck vs. Celebrir - Dia.1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O . O . . O . X . O . X . . X . . |
$$ | O . O X . . . . X , . . O O X , . . . |
$$ | . O X . . . O O . X . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . X X . . . . . . . . . O . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X . . . . O . . O X . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . O . . . O . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . 2 . . . . . . 1 . . |
$$ | . . X . 4 . . . . . 3 . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . O . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X O O . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . X . , X . . O O O X . . |
$$ | . . O . . X . . . . X . X X . X X . . |
$$ | . . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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 Post subject: Re: 154. illuck vs. Celebrir
Post #93 Posted: Sat Feb 11, 2012 1:37 am 
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm61 illluck vs. Celebrir - Prisoners: 0-1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O . O . . O . X . O . X . . X . . |
$$ | O . O X . . . . X , . . O O X , . . . |
$$ | . O X . . . O O . X . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . X X . . . . . . . . . O . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X . . . . O . . O X . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . O . . . O . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . 7 . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . O . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X O O . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . X . , X . . O O O X . . |
$$ | . . O . . X . . . . X . X X . X X . . |
$$ | . . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Trying to see if I can make anything above the third line on the left side. I considered playing the second-line kosumi first, but white probably won't respond.

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 Post subject: Re: 154. illuck vs. Celebrir
Post #94 Posted: Mon Feb 13, 2012 2:30 am 
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm61 illluck vs. Celebrir - Prisoners: 0-1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O . O . . O . X . O . X . . X . . |
$$ | O . O X . . . . X , . . O O X , . . . |
$$ | . O X . . . O O . X . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . X X . . . . . . . . . O . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . 8 . X . . . . O . . O X . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . O . . . O . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . O . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X O O . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . X . , X . . O O O X . . |
$$ | . . O . . X . . . . X . X X . X X . . |
$$ | . . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I think this a important move. Therefore I'll (try to) think carefully.

First a try to count (Counting is one of my weak points):

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm61 illluck vs. Celebrir - Counting
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | C C C C C C C . . . . . . . C C C C C |
$$ | C C C . C C C . . . . . . . C C C C C |
$$ | C O O . O . C O . X . O . X . . X C C |
$$ | O C O X . . . . X , . . O O X , . C C |
$$ | . O X . . . O O . X . . . . X . . C C |
$$ | . X X . . . . . . . . . O . . O X C C |
$$ | . . ? ? ? . . . . X . . . . . O X C C |
$$ | C C ? ? ? ? . X . . . . O C C O X C C |
$$ | C C X ? ? ? . . . X . . . C C . . . C |
$$ | C C C ? ? ? . . . , . O C C C O . X C |
$$ | C C C ? ? . . . . O . . C C C ? . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . C C C C O ? ? ? . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . C C C C C ? ? ? . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . O C C C C C O O . . |
$$ | C C . . . . . . . X O O C C . . X . . |
$$ | C C C O . . . X . , X . . O O O X C C |
$$ | C C O . . X . C C C X . X X . X X C C |
$$ | C C C O X . C C C C C C C C . C C C C |
$$ | C C . . . . C C C C C C C C C C C C C |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Black:
Bottom: 32
Left: 10
Upper right: 24
66 total
+potential at the left middle (15)

White:
Upper left: 16
Bottom left: 12
Right middle: 26
6,5 komi
1 prisoner
61,5 total
+potential at the right (7)

If this is correct his lead is not that big as I thought, but the big problem is his potential at the left. Best would be if I can reduce it in sente and move at the right afterwards.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 illluck vs. Celebrir - Dia. 1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O . O . . O . X . O . X . . X . . |
$$ | O . O X b . . . X , . . O O X , . . . |
$$ | . O X 8 7 . O O . X . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . X X . . . . . . . . . O . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . 9 . . . X . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . a X . . . . O . . O X . . |
$$ | . . X . . . 4 . . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , 6 2 3 . . , . O . . . O . X . |
$$ | . . . . . 5 . 1 . O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . c . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . O . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X O O . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . X . , X . . O O O X . . |
$$ | . . O . . X . . . . X . X X . X X . . |
$$ | . . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

:w1: is a calm move which aims at 'a'. :b2: defends but with the sequence up to :w9: This looks like a good reduction, but there is a weakness at 'b'. Maybe I can make some points at 'c' later.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 illluck vs. Celebrir - Dia. 1b
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O 1 O 4 . O . X . O . X . . X . . |
$$ | O . O X 3 . . . X , . . O O X , . . . |
$$ | . O X X O 7 O O . X . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . X X . 5 . . . . . . . O . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . O 6 . . X . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X . . . . O . . O X . . |
$$ | . . X . . . X . . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , X X O . . , . O . . . O . X . |
$$ | . . . . . O . O . O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . O . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X O O . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . X . , X . . O O O X . . |
$$ | . . O . . X . . . . X . X X . X X . . |
$$ | . . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Of course he doesn't need to exchange :b1: with :w2: first and safe this for a ko.
Some tries with the direct attack:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 illluck vs. Celebrir - Dia. 2
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O . O . . O . X . O . X . . X . . |
$$ | O . O X . . . . X , . . O O X , . . . |
$$ | . O X . . . O O . X . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . X X . 9 . . . . . . . O . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . 3 2 6 . X . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . 7 4 1 X . . . . O . . O X . . |
$$ | . . X . . 8 5 . . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . O . . . O . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . O . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X O O . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . X . , X . . O O O X . . |
$$ | . . O . . X . . . . X . X X . X X . . |
$$ | . . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Doesn't look good for me. Dia.1 seems a lot better.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 illluck vs. Celebrir - Dia. 3
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O . O . . O . X . O . X . . X . . |
$$ | O . O X . . . . X , . . O O X , . . . |
$$ | . O X . . . O O . X . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . X X . . . 7 4 . . . . O . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . 5 2 3 6 X . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . 8 1 X . . . . O . . O X . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . O . . . O . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . O . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X O O . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . X . , X . . O O O X . . |
$$ | . . O . . X . . . . X . X X . X X . . |
$$ | . . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

He also can defend at :w3: with :b8: and I'll defend at :b8: then. Either way, I still prefer Dia. 1

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 illluck vs. Celebrir - Dia. 3
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O . O . . O . X . O . X . . X . . |
$$ | O . O X . . . . X , . . O O X , . . . |
$$ | . O X . . . O O . X . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . X X . . 3 . . . . . . O . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . 1 . X . . . . O . . O X . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . 2 . , . O . . . O . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . O . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X O O . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . X . , X . . O O O X . . |
$$ | . . O . . X . . . . X . X X . X X . . |
$$ | . . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I don't know how he'll continue, but with the peaceful answer this seems playable. I have some move to reduce the left now as well.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 illluck vs. Celebrir - Dia. 4a
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O . O . . O . X . O . X . . X . . |
$$ | O . O X . . . . X , . . O O X , . . . |
$$ | . O X . . . O O . X . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . X X . 9 8 . . . . . . O . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . 7 2 3 5 6 X . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . 0 1 4 X . . . . O . . O X . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . O . . . O . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . O . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X O O . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . X . , X . . O O O X . . |
$$ | . . O . . X . . . . X . X X . X X . . |
$$ | . . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 illluck vs. Celebrir - Dia. 4b
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O . O 5 . O . X . O . X . . X . . |
$$ | O . O X 4 . . . B , . . O O X , . . . |
$$ | . O X . 2 3 W O . X . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . X X . O X 7 . . . . . O . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . 6 O X O O X X . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . X O X X . . . . O . . O X . . |
$$ | . . X . . 1 . . . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . O . . . O . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . O . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X O O . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . X . , X . . O O O X . . |
$$ | . . O . . X . . . . X . X X . X X . . |
$$ | . . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

If he should try to fight I think I can be confident. Note that the exchange of the two circled stones helps me here.

I want to decide between Dia. 1 and Dia. 3/4. I think they're more or less equal but Dia. 3/4 is more complicate. Since I'm behind I want a more complicate game so I'll choose this move.

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 Post subject: Re: 154. illuck vs. Celebrir
Post #95 Posted: Mon Feb 13, 2012 4:06 am 
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KGS: illluck
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OGS: illluck
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm61 illluck vs. Celebrir - Prisoners: 0-1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O . O . . O . X . O . X . . X . . |
$$ | O . O X 9 . . . X , . . O O X , . . . |
$$ | . O X . . . O O . X . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . X X . . . . . . . . . O . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . X . . . . O . . O X . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . O . . . O . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . O . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X O O . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . X . , X . . O O O X . . |
$$ | . . O . . X . . . . X . X X . X X . . |
$$ | . . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


That is either the perfect reduction or too deep. I didn't read too carefully (6 am, and I need to do a case write-up before 9 XD), but suspect there's a keima cut potential after I exchange this for an extend. I don't think I have any better local moves other than this, so I'll just play it first. The biggest danger is perhaps white tenuki and play another move to try to attack my top centre group, but I think it's strong enough.

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 Post subject: Re: 154. illuck vs. Celebrir
Post #96 Posted: Mon Feb 13, 2012 4:48 am 
Lives in gote
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Posts: 353
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Rank: German 1k
KGS: 1.Dan
OGS: 4k
Universal go server handle: Celebrir
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm61 illluck vs. Celebrir - Prisoners: 0-1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O . O 0 . O . X . O . X . . X . . |
$$ | O . O X X . . . X , . . O O X , . . . |
$$ | . O X . . . O O . X . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . X X . . . . . . . . . O . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . X . . . . O . . O X . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . O . . . O . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . O . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X O O . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . X . , X . . O O O X . . |
$$ | . . O . . X . . . . X . X X . X X . . |
$$ | . . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I don't think I have much options here. Instead of speculating about his next move now, I'll first post my move, hoping he answers soon and thinkimg about continuations later. Normally I wouldn't do that but like I wrote, I think I really have no other options here.

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 Post subject: Re: 154. illuck vs. Celebrir
Post #97 Posted: Mon Feb 13, 2012 5:06 am 
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Posts: 1223
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KGS: illluck
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OGS: illluck
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm71 illluck vs. Celebrir - Prisoners: 0-1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O . O O . O . X . O . X . . X . . |
$$ | O . O X X . . . X , . . O O X , . . . |
$$ | . O X . . . O O . X . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . X X . . . . . . . . . O . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . 1 . . . X . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . X . . . . O . . O X . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . O . . . O . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . O . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X O O . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . X . , X . . O O O X . . |
$$ | . . O . . X . . . . X . X X . X X . . |
$$ | . . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

I also considered a kosumi, but in either case I think white will just run out the other way and I think this cut ends in a better shape. I guess white will run out, but I should keep sente and also will have some weaknesses around the resulting connection.

p.s. this is now 7 am - my powers of procrastination truly knows no bounds XD

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 Post subject: Re: 154. illuck vs. Celebrir
Post #98 Posted: Mon Feb 13, 2012 6:18 am 
Lives in gote
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Posts: 353
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Rank: German 1k
KGS: 1.Dan
OGS: 4k
Universal go server handle: Celebrir
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm71 illluck vs. Celebrir - Prisoners: 0-1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O . O O . O . X . O . X . . X . . |
$$ | O . O X X . . . X , . . O O X , . . . |
$$ | . O X . . . O O . X . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . X X . . . . . . . . . O . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . X . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . X . . . . O . . O X . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . 2 . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . O . . . O . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . O . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X O O . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . X . , X . . O O O X . . |
$$ | . . O . . X . . . . X . X X . X X . . |
$$ | . . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Obvious reading mistake by me... I don't think the hane's work anymore, so I'll have to do something else. I'm aiming for the other direction now and think this can become quite dangerous for him.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 illluck vs. Celebrir - Prisoners: 0-1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O . O O . O . X . O . X . . X . . |
$$ | O . O X X . . . X , . . O O X , . . . |
$$ | . O X . . . O O . X . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . X X . . . . . . . . . O . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . X 8 7 9 X . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . O 2 X 5 0 . . O . . O X . . |
$$ | . . X . . 4 3 1 6 X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . O . . . O . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . O . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X O O . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . X . , X . . O O O X . . |
$$ | . . O . . X . . . . X . X X . X X . . |
$$ | . . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 illluck vs. Celebrir - Prisoners: 0-1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O . O O . O . X . O . X . . X . . |
$$ | O . O X X . . . X , . . O O X , . . . |
$$ | . O X . . . O O 7 X . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . X X . . . . . . 8 . . O . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . 2 X X O O X . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . 1 O X X O X . . O . . O X . . |
$$ | . . X 6 4 X O O X X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , 5 3 . . 9 , . O . . . O . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . O . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X O O . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . X . , X . . O O O X . . |
$$ | . . O . . X . . . . X . X X . X X . . |
$$ | . . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Correct order of forcing moves might be different, this is only to show one idea. In all variations I see I'll either get out at the top or to the bottom. I hope I don't miss a variation again...

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 Post subject: Re: 154. illuck vs. Celebrir
Post #99 Posted: Mon Feb 13, 2012 7:01 am 
Tengen
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Posts: 4511
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Rank: Nebulous
GD Posts: 918
KGS: topazg
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm71 illluck vs. Celebrir - Prisoners: 0-1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O . O O . O . X . O . X . . X . . |
$$ | O . O X X . . . X , . . O O X , . . . |
$$ | . O X . . . O O . X . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . X X . . . . . . . . . O . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . X . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . X . . . . O . . O X . . |
$$ | . . X . . . 3 2 . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . O . . . O . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . O . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X O O . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . X . , X . . O O O X . . |
$$ | . . O . . X . . . . X . X X . X X . . |
$$ | . . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


More promising for Black?

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 Post subject: Re: 154. illuck vs. Celebrir
Post #100 Posted: Mon Feb 13, 2012 12:24 pm 
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Posts: 1223
Liked others: 738
Was liked: 239
Rank: OGS 2d
KGS: illluck
Tygem: Trickprey
OGS: illluck
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm71 illluck vs. Celebrir - Prisoners: 0-1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O . O O . O . X . O . X . . X . . |
$$ | O . O X X . . . X , . . O O X , . . . |
$$ | . O X . . . O O . X . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . X X . . . . . . . . . O . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . X . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . X . . . . O . . O X . . |
$$ | . . X . . . 3 O . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . O . . . O . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . O . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X O O . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . X . , X . . O O O X . . |
$$ | . . O . . X . . . . X . X X . X X . . |
$$ | . . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Mmmm, last time I thought there was something that makes this move (well, actually, I thought white would either G12 or kosumi, but G12 would probably transpose into this one) difficult. But now it seems like I actually can play this move without much danger. If I can play this, then white's last move probably should have been the kosumi.

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