Lines of Play That are Especially Difficult to Read

SmoothOper · Post by **SmoothOper** » Mon Oct 29, 2012 7:31 am

I wonder if there are any lines of play that just have so many variations that they are impossible to read, the magic sword and large avalanche are a couple examples.

Also are there any examples of pros that were known for successful deployment of these in defense against strong reading?

Bill Spight · Post by **Bill Spight** » Mon Oct 29, 2012 8:08 am

Impossible to read:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$B $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Alguien · Post by **Alguien** » Mon Oct 29, 2012 8:24 am

Bill Spight wrote:Impossible to read:

K10 only move.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bc $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . 1 . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Alguien · Post by **Alguien** » Mon Oct 29, 2012 8:25 am

Bill Spight wrote:Impossible to read:

Tenuki.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bc $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bc $$ -- $$ | 1 $$ -- Tenuki[/go]

Alguien · Post by **Alguien** » Mon Oct 29, 2012 8:26 am

Bill Spight wrote:Impossible to read:

Hane gives an inferior result.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bc $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |1 $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Splatted · Post by **Splatted** » Mon Oct 29, 2012 8:26 am

Yes, passing is a very powerful tactic because it leaves more empty intersections, and thus more possible game paths, than any other move, but it's mainly used to complicate the game when facing someone with poor reading. This is why it's very common to see strong players passing several times during handicap games, and since each empty intersection adds possibilities to any game path, the effect is exponential.

It's a risky tactic though, so often you will see players opt for the much safer "local pass" (more commonly know as a tenuki). I think this bit might actually be true.

tomukaze · Post by **tomukaze** » Mon Oct 29, 2012 8:26 am

Surely tengen is the only move here! :lol:

tundra · Post by **tundra** » Mon Oct 29, 2012 9:04 am

Actually, if your opponent is Bill Spight, the only realistic move is obvious: resign :-?

tomukaze · Post by **tomukaze** » Mon Oct 29, 2012 9:16 am

tundra wrote:Actually, if your opponent is Bill Spight, the only realistic move is obvious: resign

How about this move? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9fqyfkFZEm0 (around 17 minutes and 35 seconds in.)

Phelan · Post by **Phelan** » Mon Oct 29, 2012 9:38 am

tomukaze wrote:
tundra wrote:Actually, if your opponent is Bill Spight, the only realistic move is obvious: resign

How about this move? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9fqyfkFZEm0 (around 17 minutes and 35 seconds in.)

"The uploader has not made this video available in your country."

SmoothOper · Post by **SmoothOper** » Tue Oct 30, 2012 10:57 am

So that's it... Tengen? I suspect the 4-4 would be the traditional response. How predictable is that?

SmoothOper · Post by **SmoothOper** » Wed Oct 31, 2012 8:00 am

Alguien wrote:
Bill Spight wrote:Impossible to read:

K10 only move.

$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X X X . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . 1 O O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
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$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X X X . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . 1 O O X . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Would this sequence be considered playable? I am trying to think of a way where a 4-4 stone would be compelled to play a center game. It seems that an influence oriented game wouldn't be the best against a center oriented game since the corner is still up for grabs.

Uberdude · Post by **Uberdude** » Wed Oct 31, 2012 8:21 am

@SmoothOper: that cut is ridiculous: white turns on the 2nd line in sente and then captures it in a net. And what's with the constant quadrophobia? 4-4 is a fine answer to tengen. Herman posted a link to a nice video by Battousai about playing against the 'tengen then invade corners' strategy on the "one point jump cannot be cut" thread.

SmoothOper · Post by **SmoothOper** » Wed Oct 31, 2012 8:37 am

Uberdude wrote:@SmoothOper: that cut is ridiculous: white turns on the 2nd line in sente and then captures it in a net. And what's with the constant quadrophobia? 4-4 is a fine answer to tengen. Herman posted a link to a nice video by Battousai about playing against the 'tengen then invade corners' strategy on the "one point jump cannot be cut" thread.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bc $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X X X . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . 2 1 O O X . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 . . O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 . T O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

black has a weakness at T

Uberdude · Post by **Uberdude** » Wed Oct 31, 2012 8:46 am

O15 without atari is a working net.

Life In 19x19

Lines of Play That are Especially Difficult to Read

Lines of Play That are Especially Difficult to Read

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Re: Lines of Play That are Especially Difficult to Read

Re: Lines of Play That are Especially Difficult to Read

Re: Lines of Play That are Especially Difficult to Read

Re: Lines of Play That are Especially Difficult to Read

Re: Lines of Play That are Especially Difficult to Read

Re: Lines of Play That are Especially Difficult to Read

Re: Lines of Play That are Especially Difficult to Read

Re: Lines of Play That are Especially Difficult to Read

Re: Lines of Play That are Especially Difficult to Read

Re: Lines of Play That are Especially Difficult to Read

Re: Lines of Play That are Especially Difficult to Read

Re: Lines of Play That are Especially Difficult to Read

Re: Lines of Play That are Especially Difficult to Read