42. Joaz Banbeck (1d) vs. Araban (5d)

Joaz Banbeck · **#21**

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I expected something faster, probably the 4-4, which resolves the corner and gives white the chance to make a wedge at the bottom or the invasion in the lower right ( 'a' or 'b' below ).
But instead, he goes for territory early.

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But here we are with the 3-4 stone. So what to do? There are now two corners that are partially taken. The obvious move is to play in one of them. Corners are bigger than sides.
That leaves me with only three choices...err...actually four because I may have a move that affects both corners.

Before looking at those three moves, let's take a tangent and look at the direction of play that may arise. If the play is not immediately aggressive, and both black and white get their respective shimaris, then the direction of play changes, and the right side becomes important. The first player to get something around R10 or Q10 is doing very well.

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So, back to the main line of thought. Here are the options:
I can contest the upper corner, high or low.
I can play the right side, assuming that it will become important later.
I can make my own shimari.

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Option 'a'

Because of the white stone in the uppe left, I find the low approach just a bit too cramped for my tastes. For example, the classic Shusaku joseki looks like this:

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... and the marked stone makes a difference.

My reaction is to think that if I'm going to run ( which approach stones should be prepared to do ) it is better to start out high which adds 1/2 move to running. That brings us to

Option 'b'

There are several ways to play this:

If he slides under, the traditional joseki works for me. I'm safe and interfering with his star point stone.

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He can pincer like this:

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...and I get territory, he gets influence. A decent result for both sides.

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I kinda like this line because it gets territory where he was trying to get some.

Overall 'b' is playable - currently better than 'a'.

Option 'c'

If I could count on my honorable opponent to play passively, 'c' works well. I get my shimari, he gets his, and I have sente to get the big right side point:

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But he is more likely to take it himself first, then my approach stone is unhappy. He can pincer it and its natural direction to run is stymied:

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But if I don't approach, eventually he takes that point, and the right side looks sort of like this ( with some other stones elsewhere, but not shown )

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so 'c' is too passive.

Option 'd'

I can take the big side point first, hoping to influence both corners. The simnplest variation favors me:

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But he can play a chinese, and it looks like this below. But now my side stone looks misplaced:

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I say 'misplaced', because if the position were arrived at in a different order like this:

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...B3 looks timid, well short of the traditional approach to the chinese at 'a'.

That is just one way that the D10 stone could come up misplaced. And I'm sure that MHO could find others. It is just simply premature.

In summary, with 'a' being vaguely uncomfortable, 'c' being passive, and 'd' being premature, I'll go with 'b'.

Kirby · **#22**

It's no big deal, but you missed a star point, Joaz.

Tryphon · **#23**

I was wondering why Malkovich #42 but it's all clear now

Dusk Eagle · **#24**

Joaz:

Solomon · **#25**

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Joaz Banbeck · **#26**

fwiffo · **#27**

Solomon · **#28**

One entertaining move I was considering was the following:

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It's a hamete that really wakes up your opponent when you play it. It's also kind of the evil twin brother of this slightly more well-known hamete:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$c $$ --------------- $$ | . . . . . . . $$ | . . . . 3 . . $$ | . . . 2 . . . $$ | . . . , . . . $$ | . . . 1 . . . $$ | . . . . . . . $$ | . . . . . . .[/go]

Which you can find some variations on in Kogo's though I'm not a big fan of that dictionary.

Anyways, I chose not to play it because it is extremely risky. If Black refutes it, the end result is White gaining pseudo-thickness and it's just a disaster. Moreover, the refutation is not very difficult to find, albeit somewhat counter-intuitive...although, if Joaz knew the refutation to the 5-4 hamete above, then he'd have a good clue on how to refute this one.

So what's the ideal situation for White after the hamete is played?

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Black gets a group that isn't quite thick and White gains some access to the outside and some corner, so this is successful for White. White could choose to play :w4:

where

is, but this is a bit dangerous for White and furthermore, requires a good ladder which White doesn't have. After the White cut, Black would play at 'a' and chaos would ensue.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$c $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . X 1 O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . 2 . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . X , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

The bump is another tempting move but is also not good for Black. After :w2:

Black doesn't have a good followup. If Black chooses to separate the two White groups by playing :b3:

...

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$c $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 0 . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . 9 X X O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . 7 O 3 2 O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 4 1 . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 8 6 . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . X , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Clearly no good for Black.

So what is the refutation? I'll post it later so readers can ponder about it and even discuss actively amongst each other if it's interesting to enough people via hidden comments.

topazg · **#29**

Surely it's the simple cut?

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$c $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . a . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . X , O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . W 1 . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . X , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Black could ignore and play "a" I guess, but with the cut it feels close enough to a broken keima that it intuitively feels almost essential. White then just has two unhappy-ish stones to handle. If joseki ensues:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$c $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . 7 . . . 3 2 4 . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . 5 X , O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . W 1 . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 8 . 6 . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . X , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Unless White has happy dreams about 8 here...

gaius · **#30**

topazg wrote:

Surely it's the simple cut?

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$c $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . 7 . . . 3 2 4 . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . 5 X , O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . W 1 . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 8 . 6 . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . X , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Unless White has happy dreams about 8 here...

The cut feels best to me too, but I don't agree with your 2:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$c $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . X , O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . W 1 a c . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 b . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . X , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

This is much more difficult. Black has to cut back, with a, b, or c. There are quite some variations now. Is this a punishment?

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$c $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . 6 5 7 . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . 8 . 4 X , O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . W 1 . a . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 0 2 3 . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 9 . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . X , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$c $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O X X . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . O . O X , O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . 1 . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X 2 3 . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 5 . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 6 7 . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . 8 . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . X , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Like this, white's thickness seems good. But 3 at 4 might work:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$c $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O X X . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . O . O X , O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X 7 1 8 . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X 6 . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X 2 4 . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 5 . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . X , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

not trivial...

Black cannot play passively. The sequence below looks better for white:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$c $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . 7 . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . 3 X , O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 W 1 . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 6 2 4 . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . X , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

topazg · **#31**

phrax · **#32**

For Araban:

Solomon · **#33**

phrax wrote:

For Araban:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$c $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . a . X . . . X O O . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . b . . . X X , O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . c . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . X , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

I don't think it's bad for White. I notice people often feel pressured to use a 4-4 stone in the opening for influence, but it's also a very flexible move. For instance, after the joseki, White can play 'a' to put some pressure on Black's group and threaten invasion, of which there are a good handful of variations worth studying found in many books. It also serves as an extension from the 4-4.

I can also choose to branch the other way and make the simple approach at 'c'. After all, it only takes 1 move to give support to the 4-4, and 'a' is an example of such a move that is certainly not slow at all. It is even better if Black plays the last move in the joseki at 'b', but also works fine where it is now.

To gain some more insight in how to handle a 4-4 that doesn't have nearby friends, try playing this opening from time to time, which of course has been played professionally more than sufficiently:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$c $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . 4 . . . . . , . . . . . 1 . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . 3 . . . . . , . . . . . 2 . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

phrax · **#34**

Araban wrote:

phrax wrote:

For Araban:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$c $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . a . X . . . X O O . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . b . . . X X , O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . c . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . X , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

I don't think it's bad for White. I notice people often feel pressured to use a 4-4 stone in the opening for influence, but it's also a very flexible move. For instance, after the joseki, White can play 'a' to put some pressure on Black's group and threaten invasion, of which there are a good handful of variations worth studying found in many books. It also serves as an extension from the 4-4.

I can also choose to branch the other way and make the simple approach at 'c'. After all, it only takes 1 move to give support to the 4-4, and 'a' is an example of such a move that is certainly not slow at all. It is even better if Black plays the last move in the joseki at 'b', but also works fine where it is now.

To gain some more insight in how to handle a 4-4 that doesn't have nearby friends, try playing this opening from time to time, which of course has been played professionally more than sufficiently:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$c $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . 4 . . . . . , . . . . . 1 . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . 3 . . . . . , . . . . . 2 . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

For Araban:

hoohoo · **#35**

To Phrax

Joaz Banbeck · **#36**

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$c $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . B . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . X , O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . X , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

This is a fairly easy decision.

It is easier than it ought to be. There are two common responses, 'a' and 'b':

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$c $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . b . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . a . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . X , O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |[/go]

I don't know 'a' very well. So, unless there is some particular reason for not choosing 'b', I'll play it.

The next several moves are forced.
White cannot let black play 'a', so white plays :w2:

in the diagram below. I've heard that some chinese pros have been rehabilitating 'b', but I doubt that Araban will be up on that. If he is, it's fine with me, for it is far less pressure on black. ( The general idea behind white 'b' is to prevent 'e' by black and thus stabilize the right side for white. White does this when he wants to force black to play on the top. It is known to work if white has a stone around 'f'. ) It seems to be an inferior branch for white here.
After :w2:

,

is forced ( Black could play 'c' or 'd', but both of those compel one of white's groups to defend itself immediately. The main line with :b3:

keeps white guessing. )

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$c $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . f . . O . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . c . X , O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 . . a . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . d 2 . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . b . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . e . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . X , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

After

, white has to choose which child he likes more.

He can protect on the side, like this:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$c Move 5 can be at 'a' $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . 5 . O . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . a . . X , O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |[/go]

Or on the top like this.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$c 'a' and 'b' are miai $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . 4 . . O . . . b . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . X , O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . a . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |[/go]

Any of these positions seen so far look good enough for black. So I don't have to play the attach joseki when I am not familiar with all of the branches.

Trigger for Araban:

amnal · **#37**

hyperpape · **#38**

Re: Amnal

amnal · **#39**

hyperpape wrote:

Re: Amnal

gaius · **#40**

topazg:

topazg wrote:

Sorry, that wasn't supposed to be me my 2 for White necessarily, so much as whether it created a bad forcing exchange in the context of a normal joseki- sort of pseudo tewari I guess.

Although:

This looks rather good for Black to me. It's a simply huge corner. White has nice thickness, but a secured 5th line territory corner?!?, and the ability now to develop the lower right nicely? That said, I don't agree with your sequence that lead to this diagram, but even so, it doesn't feel like Black's been tricked.

White gets such huge thickness in sente... Even though black has around 35 points here, I think white is still good. Especially because black's 5-4 stone is kicked in the teeth really badly by this sequence... Something like the following might be expected, and there goes your beautiful lower right:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wc $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O X X . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . O . O X , O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . | $$ | . . . 2 . . . . . , . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . X , . . . | $$ | . . . . . 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

How about responding to the original move with the really clumsy looking kosumi? This looks OK for black, because the original pincer stone looks awkwardly placed:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wc $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 6 5 7 . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . 8 X , O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . 2 3 . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 9 . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 0 . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |[/go]

Or maybe white should crosscut? Black should be OK in this kind of fight I think:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wc $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 9 . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 3 6 . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . 5 X 7 O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 8 2 . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |[/go]

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bc Fighting ensues $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 O 2 . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . 5 . X O X 4 . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . O X O O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X X 3 . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |[/go]

I'm not afraid of this either:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bc $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 3 5 . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . 6 . 2 X , O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . 1 7 . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |[/go]

42. Joaz Banbeck (1d) vs. Araban (5d)

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