Fuseki: aproach 4-4 and go to lower chinese.

Alguien · Post by **Alguien** » Fri Nov 30, 2012 3:31 am

lovelove wrote: But sometimes, I get a quite even or worse result from my opponent's non-joseki moves. There are two cases, I didn't know my opponent's move was joseki, or I just played wrong. If first case, I will study that joseki, if second case, I will find out where I made a mistake and don't do that again.

I suffer from a third case (or a subset of the second). It's when I know that move isn't joseki and I overplay trying to punish.

Unfortunately, if I'm not playing a strong opponent, sometimes the overplay isn't punished, thus I learn nothing and I'm worse at that particular nooseki than before playing that game.

lovelove · Post by **lovelove** » Fri Nov 30, 2012 4:13 am

Alguien wrote: It's when I know that move isn't joseki and I overplay trying to punish.

That you overplay means your reading is not good. Reading is go itself, so improve your reading, tsumego is best for this.

Phelan · Post by **Phelan** » Fri Nov 30, 2012 4:35 am

Marcus wrote:I don't like the - exchange for White, but otherwise it looks pretty even to me. Bearing in mind I'm pretty weak in the opening, so I could be WAY off.

Agree, 11 after 6 doesn't make much sense. Not sure what I would play instead, though.
Edit: Guess I should have read the rest of the thread, my comment is pretty redundant.

ez4u · Post by **ez4u** » Fri Nov 30, 2012 4:53 am

@OP - The order of moves that you experience is a little unusual, however, the position that is arrived at is not. The early approach at

below was developed to counter the White combination of

and

in the regular Chinese in the second diagram below. The play at

and nearby points became the dominant approach by White after some thirty years experience with this fuseki. However, in the early years of the Chinese it was more or less standard for White to approach the upper right first as shown in the third diagram below.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bc Original Post reference diagram $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . 6 . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 8 . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . 7 . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . 1 . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bc The reason for the early approach in the lower left $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . 4 . . 3 . . 2 . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bc A different order of moves $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . 4 . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . 6 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 8 . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . 7 . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . 5 . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

In fact White did not typically play

above but rather slid into the corner, giving rise to the two following diagrams:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bc Common sequence #1 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . 6 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 8 . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . 7 . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . 5 . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bc Common sequence #2 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . 6 . . 2 . . 5 . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . 8 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 0 . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . 9 . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . 7 . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Both of these have many more examples in GoGoD than the original reference diagram. Figuring out the difference is left as an exercise for the reader.

As shown by lovelove's earlier post, the pros overwhelmingly choose to play the high approach in the lower right next . The thematic reply is

below, solidifying Black's framework while pressuring White. The joseki that follow after

through

should be part of the standard toolkit of anyone playing the Chinese.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wc $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . O . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 7 . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . . 2 . , 5 . . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . X 3 . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 6 . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

The alternative of

below is best thought of as a purely professional play, IMHO. Black wants to put as much pressure as possible on White, but in order to do so has to compromise with regard to the overall position -

is a very low play and may turn out to be too conservative. The most common reply for White has been the diagonal play at

, not giving an inch. However, the actual experience for White has not really been that good -

is a bit heavy perhaps? Lighter replies such as "a", "b", or "c" have seemed to equalize more easily.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wc $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . O . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . c . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . b a . . 1 . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . . . 3 , 2 . . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

In summary, the position that you have been encountering is not at all unusual in terms of its structure even though the sequence may be less usual. You are entering upon relatively well-understood theoretical ground. Both you and your opponents have only yourselves to blame (or to praise) for what follows.

Uberdude · Post by **Uberdude** » Fri Nov 30, 2012 5:41 am

ez4u wrote:@OP - The order of moves that you experience is a little unusual, however, the position that is arrived at is not. The early approach at below was developed to counter the White combination of and in the regular Chinese in the second diagram below. The play at and nearby points became the dominant approach by White after some thirty years experience with this fuseki. However, in the early years of the Chinese it was more or less standard for White to approach the upper right first as shown in the third diagram below.
<snip>

$$Bc The reason for the early approach in the lower left
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . 4 . . 3 . . 2 . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc The reason for the early approach in the lower left $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . 4 . . 3 . . 2 . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

That early approach is my current favourite opening. There is some coverage of it in Kim Sung Rae's 21st Century New Openings vol. 3 (in Korean, which I won from him at EGC 2010, not sure if it available in English). I particularly like the running shoulder hit of j7 (black would like to cap at k8 but it is an overplay as too thin) in one of the standard continuations show below:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm8 Big fight $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . c . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . a 0 d . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . 7 . 6 . b 8 9 . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . 5 . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . 2 . . . 3 . . 4 . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . 1 X . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

As to why black makes the early approach, my understanding was that it was also to prevent white playing the small knight's shimari as below. Of the top 10 plays against the Chinese in GoGoD this has the lower winning percentage for black of 44.4% from 99 games (perhaps not hugely significant). The 2 space high outside approach to the 3-4 is the most popular and black wins 45.8% of 349.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm5 Solid shimari => white wins? $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . 2 . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

I was going to write more but then I got a sense of deja vu and realised I've written all this and more before in http://www.lifein19x19.com/forum/viewto ... 874#p87874

Alguien · Post by **Alguien** » Fri Nov 30, 2012 6:20 am

Uberdude wrote:
$$Wcm8 Big fight
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . c . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . a 0 d . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 7 . 6 . b 8 9 . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . 5 . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . 2 . . . 3 . . 4 . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . 1 X . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm8 Big fight $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . c . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . a 0 d . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . 7 . 6 . b 8 9 . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . 5 . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . 2 . . . 3 . . 4 . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . 1 X . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

One little question about

in that diagram.

(I'm experimenting with abandoning single stones during fuseki.)

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm8 Question $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . 3 . . . 2 . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . 1 X 4 . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Is this alternative

bad? If so, why? (would

,

be a natural exchange?)

Uberdude · Post by **Uberdude** » Fri Nov 30, 2012 6:41 am

[Note that your numbers don't match up because the diagrams don't start at 1.]

Alguien wrote:
(I'm experimenting with abandoning single stones during fuseki.)

Well your experiment was not successful as you didn't abandon it! It is possible to tenuki that kick, though standing is by far the most common answer. If you do tenuki the standard extension is L4 rather than k4 to keep away from the thickness white builds with the excellent shape tiger's mouth hane on top of your stone. But if you do play tenuki from the kick you absolutely must not pull back and save your stones when white hanes on top, as that is heavy and a great exchange for white. Instead you must be consistent with your tenuki plan and build your moyo with the top side hoshi or approach at a.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm8 Consistent tenuki for moyo $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . a . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . 4 . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . 3 . . . , 2 . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . 1 X . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

ez4u · Post by **ez4u** » Fri Nov 30, 2012 6:50 am

@Uberdude
I think you are right as to the early approach's current use. It first appeared at the end of the 90's and the explanations at that time were around disrupting the pattern occurring after White's approach around N4. It's resurgence in 2009 also came about when White mainly played one or another approach move on the bottom side. However, since 2010 White mainly plays the small knight enclosure in the lower left against the Chinese with good success and of course the early approach prevents that as well.

Uberdude · Post by **Uberdude** » Fri Nov 30, 2012 6:08 pm

A similar idea to the small knight's enclosure for white on move 6 is the large knight's enclosure: reaching further towards black's moyo but less tight for the corner. It seems to me this was popular in the early 2000s but the small one took over more recently. Gu Li seems to be fond of these moves, fitting his "I'll let you build your stuff and build my own stuff, and then use my amazing invasion skill to destroy your stuff" style. Here's a game of his with this I enjoyed.

I used that as the inspiration for my play in this OGS game of mine and I got a similar result of capturing the right side but on a smaller scale. It's quite a tricky style to play as it was difficult to give black all that territory on the top side (well Gu didn't but then I didn't think I could try an invasion like he did with n12 lost, but maybe I could...) and I think h17 was a big mistake in direction (as he didn't need to defend the k15 cut) and I should have played the other move I considered of d9. I felt behind most of the game but seem to have clinched it by a point or two in the yose.

Life In 19x19

Fuseki: aproach 4-4 and go to lower chinese.

Re: Fuseki: aproach 4-4 and go to lower chinese.

Re: Fuseki: aproach 4-4 and go to lower chinese.

Re: One fuseki

Re: Fuseki: aproach 4-4 and go to lower chinese.

Re: Fuseki: aproach 4-4 and go to lower chinese.

Re: Fuseki: aproach 4-4 and go to lower chinese.

Re: Fuseki: aproach 4-4 and go to lower chinese.

Re: Fuseki: aproach 4-4 and go to lower chinese.

Re: Fuseki: aproach 4-4 and go to lower chinese.