42. Joaz Banbeck (1d) vs. Araban (5d)

Post by **Joaz Banbeck** » Fri Jun 04, 2010 6:26 pm

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$c $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . B . O . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . X , O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . X , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

With white's latest, the usual way to play this is at

below. ( I have seen 'a' and even 'b' played. ) The general idea is to attack the marked stone, either killing it, or sliding under at 'c'.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$c Diagram #1 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . c . X . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . 1 . W . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . b . a . . X , O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |[/go]

White is usually content to be complicit in the attack on his stone, as he gets

as shown below. This is almost always done when white has some presence on the left side, other than just one stone in the corner - often one of the points labeled 'a' below.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$c Diagram #2 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . 2 . 1 . W . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . X , O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . a . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . a a . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . a . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . X , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

This is what I was referring to when I stated in the previous post that some pros were trying to 'rehabilitate' R13. White stabilizes himself quickly on the right, black goes leftward to get eyespace, and white counter-attacks with

, making profit on the left side.

With this in mind, I think that MHO has misplayed just a teeny bit. He has nothing but the 4-4 stone on the left side. Any profit that he makes will be in gote. I won't go so far as to say that this is a mistake, but most pro games that I've seen don't go this way.

I could, therefore, go with the sequence shown below, which should, in theory, leave him undercompensated for the loss of the stone at L17. I'd be safe up top, and he would be playing on the left side to make something to work with 2.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$c Diagram #3 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . . . . . e . . 2 . 1 . O . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . 3 . . X , O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . a . c . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . b . . . . . . . . . . . . d . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . f . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . X , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . g . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

He would have sente, but I'd be ahead in both territory and influence. Given that I have better influence, I expect him to lose sente fairly quickly.
Then I have the approach at a ( which is tricky to pincer with 'b', because 'c' then becomes the ladder-breaker for the opposite corner ) or the approch at 'e' and an unpleasant little play at 'd'.

I'd expect the approach at 'f' or the wedge at 'g'. I'll be happy to fight him anyplace on the board.

Trigger for Araban:

Kirby · Post by **Kirby** » Fri Jun 04, 2010 8:05 pm

OK, from now on I'll call Araban "Sol Hunhyun".

SpongeBob · Post by **SpongeBob** » Sat Jun 05, 2010 12:01 am

Joaz Banbeck wrote:
$$c Diagram #3
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c Diagram #3 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . . . . . e . . 2 . 1 . O . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . 3 . . X , O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . a . c . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . b . . . . . . . . . . . . d . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . f . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . X , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . g . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
He would have sente, but I'd be ahead in both territory and influence. Given that I have better influence, I expect him to lose sente fairly quickly.
Then I have the approach at a ( which is tricky to pincer with 'b', because 'c' then becomes the ladder-breaker for the opposite corner ) or the approch at 'e' and an unpleasant little play at 'd'.

Question for Joaz:

Post by **Solomon** » Sat Jun 05, 2010 11:40 am

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$c $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . X . O . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . X , O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . W . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . X , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Note: P[video on weekend] < P[video on weekday]

The last move my opponent played was expected. To reiterate a bit of my analysis on my last move, because my last move is on the 3rd line it puts less pressure on B's top group and so it allows him to be more versatile. Therefore, he does not necessarily need to play a move at O15 to move out defensively but can play a bit more on the offense instead if he chooses to. As compensation though, my group on the right is easier to settle and doesn't need to worry about R12 if I were to play Q14 instead.

The counter-pincer of L17 puts a lot of pressure on N18, especially since Black has covered both P18 and P16. There are several possibilities I can consider, to either try and profit from the outside and, as a result, cause Black to pressure N17 even more (basically Joaz's trigger) or to move out N17 and start a fight. The former possibility is certainly simpler:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wc $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . . . . . b . . 1 . X . O . . . . . . | $$ | . c . O . . . . . , . 2 a . X , O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . X , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

To say that N17 is dead after

is an overstatement. There is still a lot of aji with the stone and B needs to be wary of 'a' at all times. However, because Black invested another move at the top it's also true that N17 got hurt at the expense of me pressuring B from the outside.

is a nice extension from my 4-4, but it's also worth noting that it does not necessarily stake any territory at the top either; it's just a helping hand for my 4-4. Even playing a move like 'b' for W does not guarantee a full corner either, as B is still left with a corner-sliding tactic such as 'c'.

Overall the result wouldn't be so bad for W, but it's just not to my taste. It settles too quickly (didn't I complain about something like this in zinger's game?

) and I don't want to be burdened with trying to figure out the perfect timing for pushing out with 'a'. So instead I considered the one-space jump (after all the one-space jump is never bad

).

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wc $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . a . X . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . b . X . O . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . X , O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . X , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

While it does give N17 access to the outside as I'd like, it also doesn't necessarily split B's groups apart as he is left with N18 to connect both groups from underneath, though I don't expect him to play it immediately since neither groups are in any danger and it looks slow. I could easily tenuki afterwards or just play O16 to eat up P15 and have a solid, thick group.

But is there a way for me to ensure B is split apart while running out? Such a play would allow me to counter-pincer B's counter-pincer (does that even make sense?) with 'b'. Well yes, there is in fact a way - the rather crude-looking move of O17.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wc $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . X . O 1 2 . . a . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . X , O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . X , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

It forces B to connect at P17, which is aji keshi, but as compensation for W the connection at N17 is broken and, after B connects at P17 and I jump out, B will have two groups to deal with...

...or will he? I didn't notice initially, but thanks to the aji keshi peep it gives B the nice move of 'a' to dig a base into the corner. This means the three stone group of B is not in trouble at all since he can play S17 at any time to settle. He could then choose to focus on handling L17 lightly, and overall the situation would not be bad for him.

Weighing the pros and cons of both O17 and the simple jump, I ultimately concluded that the one-space jump is better. Again, to reiterate, the connection from underneath isn't as bad as I think it is. I can play elsewhere because N17 would still be safe as it has access to the outside and I have O16 which I can play at any time to eat P15. Thus, one-space jump it is.

SpongeBob · Post by **SpongeBob** » Sat Jun 05, 2010 4:30 pm

Question for Araban:

Sorry that I keep posting questions for you guys. You say that the surrounded stone is not yet dead and that you would have to think about the right timing for playing a here:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wc $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . . . . . b . . 1 . X . O . . . . . . | $$ | . c . O . . . . . , . 2 a . X , O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . X , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

However, I cannot see a variation in which a move at a would resurrect the stone and give something useful for White. Maybe I should get myself some glasses ...

The only thing I can see is a Ko like this:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wc $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 X . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . O . X . O . 3 4 . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . X . 1 X , O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . X , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Was it this that you meant?

And then you say this:
"Again, to reiterate, the connection from underneath isn't as bad as I think it is. I can play elsewhere because N17 would still be safe as it has access to the outside and I have O16 which I can play at any time to eat P15."
I do not understand this, do you mean the following variation?

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bc $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . 2 1 5 X . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . X 3 O 4 6 . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . X , O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . X , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Post by **Solomon** » Sat Jun 05, 2010 5:15 pm

To Spongebob:

It is nothing to be sorry about, it's almost the whole point behind Malkovich games - a learning experience for everyone, so questions are encouraged

.

Now with that being said, regarding your first question you don't need glasses. First off I'd like to emphasize that I'm not burdened in any way of breaking out with N17 and saving it, just that the possibility remains and fluctuates in potential as the situation changes elsewhere on the board. Indeed, I would even go so far as to say that there are more good variations that end up sacrificing N17 to gain further profit from the outside and utilizing the aji that way rather than trying to break out N17. So my wording is perhaps a bit poor from my last analysis; the stone has a lot of aji, but the aji is not necessarily strictly for escaping, but also to use it to gain further profit from the outside.

Well let's suppose it was within my best intention to try and break out immediately rather than later (this is not recommended because as it stands now it is cumbersome to try and save, and also as it stands there are ways for Black to outright prevent me from living, although as I mentioned I do gain profit by sacrificing the inside from the outside). The strongest way to break out for W is usually 1 - 3, although of course it (always) depends on the global situation. Black has several ways to respond, which I've listed a - d; I'll discuss 'a' and 'b', which I think are sufficient to explain the two possibilities (sacrificing vs. breaking out) and how both are fine for me:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wc $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . O . X . O . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . X 1 c X , O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . a 3 2 d . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . b . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . X , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Now it's clear that 'a' allows W to break out, simply by atari'ing the other way with 'd', although extending to M14 is also possible (and, imo, better) and this is a move with an intent of sacrificing than saving.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bc $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . O . X . O . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . X O 6 X , O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . 1 O X 2 . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . 3 4 . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . X , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

So what about 'b'? After

there are many variations to consider, but you can see that B can block the stones from the inside from escaping. However, you can see up to

then B 'a', I gain thickness which works well with my 4-4 on the left. Also, while Black's group is thick, it's also blocked from both sides (left and right) so its potential is very restricted. Furthermore I am left with the endgame tactic of b - f (e at

). So sacrificing is also very possible.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bc $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . b 9 7 8 c . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . f d 5 4 a X . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . O 6 X 3 O . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , 0 X O . X , O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . 2 O X . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . X , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

If Black wants to prevent from getting sealed in AND eat the 3 stones, then:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wc $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . 9 . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . 5 6 3 . X . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . O 7 X 2 O . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . 4 8 X O . X , O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . 0 1 O X . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . X , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

is a move that helps Black prevent from getting sealed in, but

is a move that painfully squeezes Black's stones into a clump.

is necessary to maintain access to the outside, but you can clearly see that if Black plays like that then White can save the three stones.

'c' and 'd' from the first diagram bring in many more variations, but they all have similar goals to the two moves I discussed. And again I'd like to emphasize that these variations aren't really appropriate now because there is no way I'd try to either save or sacrifice immediately; I will wait and see how the situation changes elsewhere before making my decision because there is no way Black will reinforce with yet another move on the top. It is too slow so he won't do anything there either. I hope this answers your question.

Post by **Solomon** » Sat Jun 05, 2010 5:23 pm

To Spongebob (pt. 2)

Post by **Joaz Banbeck** » Sun Jun 06, 2010 8:48 am

SpongeBob wrote:...
Question for Joaz:
You are mentioning that if you'd jump out at c in response to a pincer at b, you'd have a ladder-breaker for the opposite corner. Is there a specific joseki you are thinking about where this ladder would be relevant?

CAVEAT: In mid-game, while it is still possible that we might play some such joseki in the corner, I can't double-check this on line or in my books. This is of the top of my head, so it may not be accurate.

One of the main lines goes like this, white trying to get the corner territory with eye space and simultaneously trying to get out to have influence, and black trying to push him down.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wc $$ . . . . . . . . | $$ . . . . . . . . | $$ . . . . . 5 . . | $$ . . . . 4 2 3 . | $$ . . . X . 1 . . | $$ . . . . . . . . | $$ . . . . . . . . | $$ . . . . . . . . | $$-----------------[/go]

If white commits to the outside immediately, then white can end up with 1 point in territory and minimal influence for his four stones while black gets a 10-point corner and greater influence.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bc $$ . . . . . . . . | $$ . . . . . . 2 . | $$ . . . . . O 1 4 | $$ . . . . X X O . | $$ . . . X . O 3 . | $$ . . . . . 5 . . | $$ . . . . . . . . | $$ . . . . . . . . | $$-----------------[/go]

Or white can go inside for a modest corner while black takes the outside. If black has the ladder to ensure the death of the marked white stone, black's influence is worth more than white's territory. If black does not have the ladder, then white has a splitting attack and his position is better.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bc $$ . . . . . . . . | $$ . . . . . 3 . . | $$ . . . . . W 1 . | $$ . . . . X X O . | $$ . . . X . O 2 . | $$ . . . 5 4 . . . | $$ . . . . . . . . | $$ . . . . . . . . | $$-----------------[/go]

Post by **Joaz Banbeck** » Sun Jun 06, 2010 8:00 pm

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$c $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . X . O . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . X , O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . B . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . X , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Video should be posted later tonite.

Post by **Joaz Banbeck** » Sun Jun 06, 2010 9:47 pm

Video comments for latest move are here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BUU9w_Wi9Dk

This is my first attempt at video comments, so feedback would be most appreciated. Is the technical quality sufficient? Does the whole thing make sense?

Website · Post by **Chew Terr** » Sun Jun 06, 2010 10:19 pm

Joaz: Great video. As far as the technical aspect, the volume setting is very low (I had to max my speaker volume), so if you could turn up the camera's microphone in your settings, that would be much appreciated. The approach (webcam, real board) works just fine. I recommend considering embedding the video into your post for viewer convenience, but that's minor. As far as the content itself,

ketchup · Post by **ketchup** » Sun Jun 06, 2010 10:51 pm

Joaz Banbeck, first of all, great job. It is a bit more attention-catching since it's from a real board, rather than the way Sol.ch does things. Not that it's any bad, just different than what we usually see here. Secondly, I think the camera needs a stationary spot. I believe there are parts of the video where the board is cut off, which disconnects people from the game(maybe that's just me though). I don't mind the sound being that low, it is understandable to me, but it couldn't hurt to get it just a tad louder.

Kirby · Post by **Kirby** » Sun Jun 06, 2010 11:25 pm

Great video, Joaz. It was a nice change of pace.

Suji · Post by **Suji** » Mon Jun 07, 2010 1:29 pm

The video was pretty good. It's just my personal preference, but you might want to try one on the computer. That being said, I do like real boards and stones since they add more of a realistic feel to the video. The volume is a tad quiet on your video, though it's not the end of the world.

It might be easier for you to do variations on the computer, rather than having to remember the current position. If you could somehow combine computer and a real board and stones that would be awesome.

Something that Araban does that I really like is telling stories about previous games, telling us his preferences, showing the usual joseki, etc. That, at least, helps me remember why a particular move was played. If I can understand your reasoning, it helps me grow as a player. You did a great job on explaining why you chose your move, but if you could also explain more why moves are the only move, (i.e. what if he doesn't go there? what is the result of some inferior moves so that we can understand the "why" behind the optimal moves?).

Overall, though, I thought it was a pretty good video.

daniel_the_smith · Post by **daniel_the_smith** » Mon Jun 07, 2010 1:46 pm

FWIW, I thought the real board was cool, but the wobbly camera made me ill after a minute or so... :/

Life In 19x19

42. Joaz Banbeck (1d) vs. Araban (5d)

Re: Malkovich #42 - Joaz 1D vs Araban 5D

Re: Malkovich #42 - Joaz 1D vs Araban 5D

Re: Malkovich #42 - Joaz 1D vs Araban 5D

Re: Malkovich #42 - Joaz 1D vs Araban 5D

Re: Malkovich #42 - Joaz 1D vs Araban 5D

Re: Malkovich #42 - Joaz 1D vs Araban 5D

Re: Malkovich #42 - Joaz 1D vs Araban 5D

Re: Malkovich #42 - Joaz 1D vs Araban 5D

Re: 42. Joaz Banbeck (1d) vs. Araban (5d)

Re: 42. Joaz Banbeck (1d) vs. Araban (5d)

Re: 42. Joaz Banbeck (1d) vs. Araban (5d)

Re: 42. Joaz Banbeck (1d) vs. Araban (5d)

Re: 42. Joaz Banbeck (1d) vs. Araban (5d)

Re: 42. Joaz Banbeck (1d) vs. Araban (5d)

Re: 42. Joaz Banbeck (1d) vs. Araban (5d)