schawipps messy games

schawipp · Post by **schawipp** » Fri Jul 05, 2013 2:23 am

I played the following game on the wbaduk server yesterday evening (and used the method desribed in http://lifein19x19.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=8637 to extract the SGF...).

As often on wbaduk, I tend to get involved in messy fights, and there, even 11k players handle them quite solidly. In this game, I misread a Ko in an early fight; by patching the remaining groups I got significantly behind. Later, I succeeded to establish a big invasion into the black san ren sei area, however it did not fully compensate my losses before.

I added some questions and remarks and would appreciate any comments and suggestions for improvement!

Shinkenjoe · Post by **Shinkenjoe** » Fri Jul 05, 2013 3:38 am

Some direction of play thoughts. I'm just a few stones stronger than you, so just consider what I'm saying.

:w14:

I'd prefer something like making the chinese formation at the left and invade sanrenseí if he takes one side. With this approach you strengthen his sanresei. But this can be a matter of style

:w20:

Pincer! his potential at top isnt that great cause of your group and your 3-4 stone is strengtehed.

:w24:

Your potential top is gone. Just live with your corner stones and attack his approaching stones. maybe c13.

:w40:

Better strengthen your middle stones with something like N15 to prepare for an attack by the top group. Thjen you can still strengthen them with some shape move in the ceenter to attack the top group yourself later or take a big extension at bottom.

:w80:

attack the top group. E12 for example.

leichtloeslich · Post by **leichtloeslich** » Fri Jul 05, 2013 9:42 am

A few ideas:

You should take these with a bit of scepticism, though, as my main strength is reading and I haven't done much of that, here.

schawipp · Post by **schawipp** » Fri Jul 05, 2013 7:09 pm

Thank you both for your thorough analysis with many good ideas! I see as general trend that I sometimes switch into standby-mode and play unnecessary local moves while being more whole-board alert during other game situations.

@leichtloeslich: Regarding your comment on move 195, I still feel a bit uneasy with blocking on a3, since there are some more weaknesses around:

On the other hand, blocking on b3 costs 2 extra points in gote, while the best variation (If I did not missed another relevant one...?) after blocking on a3 costs 6 points but ends with sente for w, which is probably more important.

leichtloeslich · Post by **leichtloeslich** » Fri Jul 05, 2013 7:44 pm

I still feel a bit uneasy with blocking on a3, since there are some more weaknesses around

yeah, I actually saw the clamp and suspected there was trouble, but that was seconds (either before or) after posting and I was too lazy to change the sgf again. So I just posted my "didn't read lol"-disclaimer.

schawipp · Post by **schawipp** » Mon Aug 05, 2013 5:39 am

Here is another game from WBADUK which I lost by 1.5 pts (for some reason, the server showed only 0.5 pts but that's not important). There was some mutual struggeling of weak groups but no real major accident happened. I am sure I chosed the wrong direction a number of times in fuseki, also I suspect that more points could be gained in endgame. Thus, I would appreciate any feedback!

Shinkenjoe · Post by **Shinkenjoe** » Tue Aug 06, 2013 2:46 am

Some 4kyu Kgs comments:

:w11:

I thought about R13 to counter the slowness of R 14 and if he tenukies i take the corner with q 17, which also threatens some invasion at his top, but there is a big fight goin on at R 12, so I dont know. Maybe your R12 alternative still is best. The problem with your move: He has to reinforce his top someday anyway and you force him to do was has to be done. and even as you do: Your high extension at :w13:

afterwards is of no value as there is no attack goin top. Play this one low to secure the corner better.

:w16:

better approach the other corner I'd say. If you want to play locally here try somethin like Q3 and the josekis following. the standard approach gets heavy easily now as you painfully discovered.

:w20:

You protect Non territory. Extend to L or K 4 , L4 maybe because youre already undercut, so with K4 that his invasion at M4 or M3 may get out easier (so maybe in sente).

:w26:

much better

:b29:

I wouldnt call your J 4 group weak because you got D5 still goin

Some other comments later

Shinkenjoe · Post by **Shinkenjoe** » Thu Aug 08, 2013 4:51 am

and

I see two ways, either you play your leaning move and follow with something like L7 or M7 that makes use of the leaning, or you just jump once more, which also threatens his side sometime, but helps your group more. The leaning move alone does too less for your weak group
Also your tenuki should locally be on the third line. now it looks like as you'd gone downwards against a kick, but you sur would want to go upwards. Locally also a possible answer to be thought at is O14. First you jump out, second If he invades in the corner you get liberties in a possible semeai.

:w36:

I think you can tenuki, as your second line stone stops the invasion's connection at R15, at least as i read. Still a bit risky. Big moves: M/L7 D5, leftside

:w42:

The joseki answer is D6. Look at these josekis at Josekipedia.

:w54:

L9: this is the decisive moment of the game, but actually I'm too weak to tell you right play here. What happens if he cuts at N9? You could sacrifice and march the way down the M line. what if he just extends or counter hanes? Your sacrifice still would work, if you don't defend the cut. I can't say if the sacrifice here is good. You sure can keep on attacking his group and he gets about 20 points. Were you willing to sacrifice ?

:w58:

Can you really tenuki ? I can't see a good attacking move for him, I'd try to run more as black.

:w66:

This one on N6

:w84:

Do something for your dragon. Everyday. I would have played F10 or M11.

108: You're sure youre connected with your group? I maybe would have tenukid.

I'm curious for all the other reviews.

schawipp · Post by **schawipp** » Thu Aug 08, 2013 6:03 am

Thank you for all your interesting comments! I've put your suggestions together with some more variations from me into the SGF:

I included also your suggestion after the possible cut at N9 (move 55). It does not look bad at all, but maybe a bit over-optimistic :batman:

schawipp · Post by **schawipp** » Thu Oct 10, 2013 1:32 pm

On wbaduk, my rank currently seems to level off at around 12k. As a general trend I recognize that I start too many groups and am too optimistic about getting them all settled. I won the attached game only luckily, as there were several situations where one of my groups was at the rim of dying. A stronger opponent should have killed at least my lower right corner if not even more. At the end, black had only one big connected group (with nice labyrinth-like shape... ;-)

), while I had to fiddle around with 5 groups - whereof one got actually lost.

Any comments on the game are highly appreciated.

I would like to keep this thread as my (non-regularly updated) study journal: Since there should be no study journal without a goal, I would like to set my personal next goal to becoming sdk on wbaduk (which seems more or less equivalent to breaking the 5k barrier on KGS if I understood the rank comparison tables correctly...).

schawipp · Post by **schawipp** » Mon Dec 30, 2013 10:38 am

Up to now, I was practising mainly tsumego and playing games, while the outcome of Fuseki seems somewhat of a mystery for me. Thus, I obtained "Opening theory made easy" from Otake and "Making good shape" from Zeijst/Bozulich and am now trying to get something out of it. From the two attached games (a loss and a win; both on wbaduk today) you can see that I'm still struggeling with overall strategy and direction of play. Any comments or hints for improvement are greatly appreciated.

Edit: Removed the names of the opponents

schawipp · Post by **schawipp** » Wed Feb 26, 2014 10:04 am

Yesterday I played a game, where I got somehow tricked very quickly (it was a bit late in the evening, though). After I've played an "ideal" extension, my opponent entered it with e "knee-hit" and created complications (I was helping with some overaggresive moves...).

Any comments are highly appreciated ;-)

EdLee · Post by **EdLee** » Wed Feb 26, 2014 3:56 pm

schawipp · Post by **schawipp** » Wed Feb 26, 2014 5:04 pm

Thank you EdLee for looking at this strange game and for your additional variations. However I am not yet sure, how I would play the next time if that situation repeats ...

My favorite variation would be to push on the third line in move 16 (and let black proceed on the 2nd line, if he wants...). This seems to have the advantage that white keeps fully connected while obtaining a big influence zone.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wm16 This is my favorite line $$|...................| $$|................X..| $$|...................| $$|...,.....OO..O.X...| $$|...O..31OXX..OX....| $$|.......2X..........| $$|...................| $$---------------------[/go]

Are there any disadvantages here?

In your variations, you seem to suggest to abandon O3/O4 and build a strong wall towards upper left instead. In total, black would get up to 30 secure points in lower right corner. On the other hand, white would get a quite large "potential", which is still invadeable though. I am not sure, how I would judge that. If e. g. the same sequence would be repeated at upper right, black would have about 70 points at right side which is already almost enough to win :mrgreen:

. On the other hand, by abandoning O3/O4 I would get more freedom to take big plays elsewhere...

Maybe my thinking is still too "kyuish" here (= too much focused on "solid cash"?).

What variation would you prefer - or is it a matter of style? ;-)

EdLee · Post by **EdLee** » Sat Mar 01, 2014 1:08 am

Hi schawipp, just the reference variation at :w12:

.

schawipp wrote:to abandon O3/O4 and build a strong wall towards upper left instead.

Yes. If B lets W get that result, W is super happy.

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