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Offline mic
 Post subject: Re: mic vs. Pogo: Malkovich #25
Post #41 Posted: Mon May 17, 2010 10:59 am 
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Hi,

did not forget the game, just have to think about my move and will answer soon :)

I do not like all the variations I have read out which will cut after B Q17 and W R17 and am currently trying to find out which one leaves the less damage to my corner.

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Offline mic
 Post subject: Re: mic vs. Pogo: Malkovich #25
Post #42 Posted: Tue May 18, 2010 2:30 am 
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KGS: mic
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X X . . . . . . . . . . B . . . |
$$ | . . O , O X . . . , . . . X . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Ok, I think I have to live with the cut at R17 and make the best out of it, even though I do not like any of the variations I've seen. This is probably the punishment for my high O16 ;-)

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Offline POGO
 Post subject: Re: mic vs. Pogo: Malkovich #25
Post #43 Posted: Thu May 20, 2010 3:50 pm 
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X X . . . . . . . . . . X W . . |
$$ | . . O , O X . . . , . . . X . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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Offline mic
 Post subject: Re: mic vs. Pogo: Malkovich #25
Post #44 Posted: Mon May 24, 2010 8:46 am 
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Hello,

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . B . . |
$$ | . . . X X . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . O , O X . . . , . . . X . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . c B . . |
$$ | . . . X X . . . . . . . . . b X O a . |
$$ | . . O , O X . . . , . . . X . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I play at :bc: because with both answers of white, e.g. a and b I get something out of it (even though his "invasion" kind of worked by reducing the corner):

If white plays a:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . |
$$ | . . . X X . . . . . . . . . 3 X O 2 . |
$$ | . . O , O X . . . , . . . X . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

and we share the corner, ok for me, since O16 was a bit of inviting this kind of play from white.


If white plays b:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 . . . 1 . . |
$$ | . . . X X . . . . . . . 7 6 2 X O 3 . |
$$ | . . O , O X . . . , . 9 8 X 4 O X . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

I think I live in the corner, so it's also quite good.

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Offline POGO
 Post subject: Re: mic vs. Pogo: Malkovich #25
Post #45 Posted: Mon May 24, 2010 5:55 pm 
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . X X . . . . . . . . . . X O W . |
$$ | . . O , O X . . . , . . . X . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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Offline Numsgil
 Post subject: Re: mic vs. Pogo: Malkovich #25
Post #46 Posted: Thu May 27, 2010 1:57 pm 
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Pogo: let's see some diagrams and such for your reading, yeah? Kind of defeats the purpose of a Malkovich game if we don't see what you're thinking.

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Offline dfan
 Post subject: Re: mic vs. Pogo: Malkovich #25
Post #47 Posted: Thu May 27, 2010 6:01 pm 
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Numsgil wrote:
Pogo: let's see some diagrams and such for your reading, yeah? Kind of defeats the purpose of a Malkovich game if we don't see what you're thinking.

Safe for POGO:
To be fair, he put the crosscut in his SGF comment to move 20, and extending from an atari is not super complicated.
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Offline topazg
 Post subject: Re: mic vs. Pogo: Malkovich #25
Post #48 Posted: Fri May 28, 2010 1:16 am 
Tengen
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My sealed move

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 2 X 6 . |
$$ | . . . X X . . . . . . . . . 3 X O W . |
$$ | . . O , O X . . . , . . . X . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . 7 1 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
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Offline mic
 Post subject: Re: mic vs. Pogo: Malkovich #25
Post #49 Posted: Fri May 28, 2010 3:00 am 
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Late reply, but a lot of possible action going on in the corner :)

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . B X . . |
$$ | . . . X X . . . . . . . . . . X O O . |
$$ | . . O , O X . . . , . . . X . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


These are the variations I thought of:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . b X f . |
$$ | . . . X X . . . . . . . . . a X O O . |
$$ | . . O , O X . . . , . . . X d O X e . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . c . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I discarded e and f quite fast, because in all read variations they make black's corner clumpsy and achieve nothing for black. c looks as if it does not work, e.g. I think about something like, which is bad for black
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 X . . |
$$ | . . . X X . . . . . . . . . 4 X O O . |
$$ | . . O , O X . . . , . . . X 2 O X 7 . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . 3 1 6 8 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


So, let's take a look at the remaining variations: a is sente for me, due to the thread of :b4:. In the end, we split the corner.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X 3 . |
$$ | . . . X X . . . . 5 . . . . 1 X O O . |
$$ | . . O , O X . . . , . . . X . O X 4 . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . 2 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]



Variant b is sente, too and I look a bit thicker in case of invasions around a.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 X . . |
$$ | . . . X X . . . . 5 . a . 3 . X O O . |
$$ | . . O , O X . . . , . . . X 2 O X . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . 4 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Then there is d, which gives sente but leaves a lot of ko threats:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X 3 . |
$$ | . . . X X . . . . 5 . . . . . X O O . |
$$ | . . O , O X . . . , . . . X 1 O X 4 . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . 2 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]



So in the end I play b to be sold and hope that my thinkings about sente are correct :) It's a pity that I had to give up a bit of the corner, but ignoring Q14 and my high approach of O16 has to be punished a bit.

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Offline topazg
 Post subject: Re: mic vs. Pogo: Malkovich #25
Post #50 Posted: Fri May 28, 2010 3:18 am 
Tengen
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To mic:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . b X f . |
$$ | . . . X X . . . . . . . . . a X O O . |
$$ | . . O , O X . . . , . . . X d O X e . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . c x . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Out of interest, why didn't you consider "x"?
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Offline mic
 Post subject: Re: mic vs. Pogo: Malkovich #25
Post #51 Posted: Fri May 28, 2010 3:23 am 
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To topazg:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . b X f . |
$$ | . . . X X . . . . . . . . . a X O O . |
$$ | . . O , O X . . . , . . . X d O X e . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . c x . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Quote:
Out of interest, why didn't you consider "x"?

Hmmm, to be honest, this was a blind spot. x looks really interesting :-|

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Offline topazg
 Post subject: Re: mic vs. Pogo: Malkovich #25
Post #52 Posted: Fri May 28, 2010 3:27 am 
Tengen
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To mic:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . X X . . . . . . . . . . X O O . |
$$ | . . O , O X . . . , . . . X . W X . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . x . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . W . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Quote:
Hmmm, to be honest, this was a blind spot. x looks really interesting :-|


Fair enough :)

To help spot it - it's the key shape point for the marked White stones (tiger's mouth is often a key shape to prevent), and it's extending a crosscut stone. Both of these are fundamental enough to give sensible points to read from, and both are easy to remember :)

This post by topazg was liked by: schultz
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Offline schultz
 Post subject: Re: mic vs. Pogo: Malkovich #25
Post #53 Posted: Fri May 28, 2010 3:50 am 
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topazg wrote:
To mic:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . X X . . . . . . . . . . X O O . |
$$ | . . O , O X . . . , . . . X . W X . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . x . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . W . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Quote:
Hmmm, to be honest, this was a blind spot. x looks really interesting :-|


Fair enough :)

To help spot it - it's the key shape point for the marked White stones (tiger's mouth is often a key shape to prevent), and it's extending a crosscut stone. Both of these are fundamental enough to give sensible points to read from, and both are easy to remember :)

It is this type of stuff that makes so much sense once someone says it, why didn't I think of it before?! Eventually I'll get better about looking for, and actually seeing, stuff like this while I play. Just one more reason I like following along with these Malkovich games at all levels.

Thanks topazg.

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Offline POGO
 Post subject: Re: mic vs. Pogo: Malkovich #25
Post #54 Posted: Sun May 30, 2010 9:44 am 
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . X X . . . . . . . . . . X O O . |
$$ | . . O , O X . . . , . . . X . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . W . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


First off i did not like this
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . B X . . |
$$ | . . . X X . . . . . . . . . . X O O . |
$$ | . . O , O X . . . , . . . X . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . A . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

and this is what i am expecting now

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X 3 . |
$$ | . . . X X . . . . 5 . . . . . X O O . |
$$ | . . O , O X 7 . . , . . . X 1 O X 4 . |
$$ | . . . . O 6 . . . . . . . . . 2 W . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . 8 . . O . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


or i could simply
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X 3 . |
$$ | . . . X X . . . . 5 . . . . . X O O . |
$$ | . . O , O X 7 . . , . . . X 1 O X 4 . |
$$ | . . . . O 6 . . . . . . . . . 2 W . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . 8 . . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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Offline mic
 Post subject: Re: mic vs. Pogo: Malkovich #25
Post #55 Posted: Mon May 31, 2010 9:14 am 
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KGS: mic
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . X X . . . . . . . . . . X O O . |
$$ | . . O , O X . . . . B . . X . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . e . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X c . |
$$ | . . . X X . . . . . b . . . . X O O . |
$$ | . . O , O X . d . a f . . X . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I thought about moves at a, b, c and f. Altough c could become sente in a later stage it seems a bit small since so many bigger areas on the board are open. b would have the purpose to get some territory but leaves the e17 group a bit unsupported. With a I can build some influence but it invites white to play at M16 where my groups are a bit weak. So in the end I decided to play f to get influence and loosely connect to O16 (altough I'm still not sure if b wouldn't be better/more secure). If white plays around d I still have the backup option of e to live in the corner.

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Offline POGO
 Post subject: Re: mic vs. Pogo: Malkovich #25
Post #56 Posted: Mon May 31, 2010 11:00 pm 
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KGS: Prophet19
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . X X . . . . . . . . . . X O O . |
$$ | . . O , O X . . . . X . . X . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . W . . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . a . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . X X . . . . . . . . . . X O O . |
$$ | . . O , O X . . . . B . . X . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . b . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . e . O . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . d . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . c . . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


So first i though about a. taking a corner? not to bad but there is bigger.
b? the reduction is nice. but if he simply plays right above it. well its over.
c im going for the right in a whole. but dont want to give him the bottom to. he will probably 3x3.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . X X . . . . . . . . . . X O O . |
$$ | . . O , O X . . . . X . . X . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 7 . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . 4 1 O . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . 6 B 2 3 O . . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . 8 9 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 0 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


d to passive.
e isnt to bad.begins a moyo. stops him for getting out around there. but. the tengen can stop that fast enough as his bottom and top are not surrounded

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Offline Numsgil
 Post subject: Re: mic vs. Pogo: Malkovich #25
Post #57 Posted: Sun Jun 06, 2010 10:20 pm 
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mic wrote:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . X X . . . . . . . . . . X O O . |
$$ | . . O , O X . . . . B . . X . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]



Not for players:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X 1 . |
$$ | . . . X X . . . . . . . . . . X O O . |
$$ | . . O , O X . . . . . . . X . O X 2 . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I would take this opportunity to make this forcing move. White almost certainly will respond like this, so black keeps sente. (If white doesn't respond, black can take the two white stones in gote and take the entire corner. I'm not sure of the exact value, but corner moves like this are always deceptively large. Maybe something like 6 points (it's hard because white has a sente end game move here that can take most of the points gained from this away).

It's gote for white to take that point instead of black, so it probably doesn't have to be done right this very minute, but I think it should be a priority move.

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Offline unkx80
 Post subject: Re: mic vs. Pogo: Malkovich #25
Post #58 Posted: Mon Jun 07, 2010 11:27 am 
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For Numsgil:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X a . |
$$ | . . . X X . . . . . . . . . . X O O . |
$$ | . . O , O X . . . . . . . X 1 O X . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


At this stage of the game, I prefer this :b1:. a is merely big endgame.

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Offline mic
 Post subject: Re: 25. mic (9k) vs. POGO (10k)
Post #59 Posted: Mon Jun 07, 2010 12:52 pm 
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Hi Pogo,

Just to say I have not forgot this game. I am looking at this position casually for a few days now but have no idea where to play :) Will at the latest answer on tuesday!

Cheers,
Mic

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Offline mic
 Post subject: Re: 25. mic (9k) vs. POGO (10k)
Post #60 Posted: Sat Jun 12, 2010 4:00 am 
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Hi, sorry for the delay. I'm now going to have more time, so hopefully we'll get into a flow.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . X X . . . . . . . . . . X O O . |
$$ | . . O , O X . . . . X . . X . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . B . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I'm looking at the following options: Ok, funny thing, this became the only option, just the continuations vary:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . X X . . . . . . . . . . X O O . |
$$ | . . O , O X . . . . X . . X . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . a . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


a
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . X X . . . . . . . . . . X O O . |
$$ | . . O , O X f . . . X . . X . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . O e . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . g . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . a c . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . 9 4 O . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . b 3 5 6 O . . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . 7 8 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . d . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

...and so on gives white way too much influence.

But with
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . X X . . . . . . . . . . X O O . |
$$ | . . O , O X 7 . . . X . . X . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . O 6 . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . 8 . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . , . . 9 . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 2 . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 1 . 3 . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . 5 . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Black builds up influence and encloses the D4 stone in (a bit), which purpose what influence.

_________________
Go is easy: don't play bad moves.
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Board index » L19²GO (Malkovich) » 1-on-1 Malkovich games

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