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Offline Numsgil
 Post subject: Re: ??. Magicwand (3d) vs. daniel_the_smith (1k)
Post #81 Posted: Fri Jun 18, 2010 12:57 pm 
Lives in gote
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Liked others: 28
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Rank: 1 Kyu KGS
KGS: Numsgil
For daniel:

daniel_the_smith wrote:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 Prisoners: W=0, B=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . O . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . X . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , X . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . B . . O . X . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

The safer he forces me to make this group, the easier it is for me to think about cutting that knight's jump.


So I'm trying to study shape right now and this is an interesting move to me. Can you explain the reasoning for this vs. 'a' and 'b' below? Personally I would have played 'b' since 'a' seems to invite white to strengthen himself. I wouldn't have even considered the move you made, so I feel like there's something here I'm not seeing, or some heuristic about the tiger's mouth I'm not familiar with.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ | . . . O . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . O . X . .
$$ | . . . X . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . O . X . .
$$ | . . . X . . . . . ,
$$ | . . . b a O . X . .
$$ | . . . X O . c . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . .
$$ ----------------------[/go]

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Offline daniel_the_smith
 Post subject: Re: ??. Magicwand (3d) vs. daniel_the_smith (1k)
Post #82 Posted: Fri Jun 18, 2010 1:08 pm 
Gosei
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Posts: 2116
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KGS: lavalamp
Tygem: imapenguin
IGS: lavalamp
OGS: daniel_the_smith
@numsigil

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc sente
$$ | . . . O . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . O . X . .
$$ | . . . X . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . O . X . .
$$ | . . . X . . . . . ,
$$ | . . . B . O . X . .
$$ | . . 4 X O . c . . .
$$ | . . 2 1 3 . . . . .
$$ ----------------------[/go]



Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc gote
$$ | . . . O . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . O . X . .
$$ | . . . X . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . O . X . .
$$ | . . . X . . . . . ,
$$ | . . B . . O . X . .
$$ | . . . X O . c . . .
$$ | . . 2 1 3 . . . . .
$$ ----------------------[/go]



Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc Later white can often eat a lot of the corner with a.
$$ | . . . O . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . O . X . .
$$ | . . . X . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . O . X . .
$$ | . . . X . . . . . ,
$$ | . . . . B O . X . .
$$ | . . a X O W . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . .
$$ ----------------------[/go]

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Offline Numsgil
 Post subject: Re: ??. Magicwand (3d) vs. daniel_the_smith (1k)
Post #83 Posted: Fri Jun 18, 2010 1:23 pm 
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Rank: 1 Kyu KGS
KGS: Numsgil
daniel_the_smith wrote:
@numsigil

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc sente
$$ | . . . O . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . O . X . .
$$ | . . . X . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . O . X . .
$$ | . . . X . . . . . ,
$$ | . . . B . O . X . .
$$ | . . 4 X O . c . . .
$$ | . . 2 1 3 . . . . .
$$ ----------------------[/go]



Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc gote
$$ | . . . O . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . O . X . .
$$ | . . . X . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . O . X . .
$$ | . . . X . . . . . ,
$$ | . . B . . O . X . .
$$ | . . . X O . c . . .
$$ | . . 2 1 3 . . . . .
$$ ----------------------[/go]



Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc Later white can often eat a lot of the corner with a.
$$ | . . . O . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . O . X . .
$$ | . . . X . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . O . X . .
$$ | . . . X . . . . . ,
$$ | . . . . B O . X . .
$$ | . . a X O W . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . .
$$ ----------------------[/go]


Ah, okay. I wasn't thinking about the end game but when it's laid out it makes sense.

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Offline daniel_the_smith
 Post subject: Re: ??. Magicwand (3d) vs. daniel_the_smith (1k)
Post #84 Posted: Sat Jun 19, 2010 7:18 pm 
Gosei
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KGS: lavalamp
Tygem: imapenguin
IGS: lavalamp
OGS: daniel_the_smith
I set up the position on my board at home, so you're in trouble now! :twisted:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . X O . O , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O B . O O X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . X X . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . X O . O . X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . X . . X O . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . O O X O X O . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . O . X X X O . . O . . X . . |
$$ | . . . X O . . . . . O . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


::smacks this move down loudly with evil grin::

This is a move I've been wanting to play for a while, and now that my middle group is firmly connected I'm 95% sure it works. As far as I can tell white will have to give up something significant.

I think the point below this one might work too, but this seems clearer to me somehow.

Possible white responses and how I will deal with them:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . X O . O , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O B 2 O O X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . 1 O . X X . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . X O . O . X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . X . . X O . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . O O X O X O . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . O . X X X O . . O . . X . . |
$$ | . . . X O . . . . . O . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . X O . O , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . 1 2 . . X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O B . O O X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . X X . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . X O . O . X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . X . . X O . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . O O X O X O . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . O . X X X O . . O . . X . . |
$$ | . . . X O . . . . . O . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . X O . O , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O B . O O X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 1 2 O . X X . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X 3 . . X O . O . X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . 4 O . X . . X O . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . O O X O X O . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . O . X X X O . . O . . X . . |
$$ | . . . X O . . . . . O . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . X O . O , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . 2 . . . X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O B 1 O O X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . X X . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . X O . O . X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . X . . X O . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . O O X O X O . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . O . X X X O . . O . . X . . |
$$ | . . . X O . . . . . O . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . X @ b @ , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . a . . X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . W B c @ @ X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . Q d X X . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . X O . O . X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . Q . X . . X O . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . O O X O X O . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . Q . X X X O . . O . . X . . |
$$ | . . . X Q . . . . . O . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


If :wt: and :ws: get disconnected, white is screwed. So a move (like c) that threatens to cut is sente. (But, you say, what if :wt: and :wc: connect and live-- :ws: is just a few stones? Answer: in that situation, black has stones at (c) and (d) and can capture :ws: making both black groups connected and thick. In my opinion white can resign if that happens.)

If I get a stone at (a), black at (b) might be a disaster for white.

BTW, topazg, if you're reading this-- if I hadn't gotten sente with my last move, I think white would have done something to prevent this... :D

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Offline Magicwand
 Post subject: Re: ??. Magicwand (3d) vs. daniel_the_smith (1k)
Post #85 Posted: Sat Jun 19, 2010 8:17 pm 
Tengen
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Posts: 4844
Location: Mechanicsburg, PA
Liked others: 62
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Rank: Wbaduk 7D
KGS: magicwand
Tygem: magicwand
Wbaduk: rlatkfkd
DGS: magicwand
OGS: magicwand
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . X O W O , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X . O O X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . X X . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . X O . O . X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . X . . X O . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . O O X O X O . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . O . X X X O . . O . . X . . |
$$ | . . . X O . . . . . O . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
holy cow...that was so~~ unexpected!!!
yea.. i saw that one coming but that is not correct way to attack..
if someone going to as "then what is the correct way??" i am sorry i dont know...but i know that what he played is wrong for sure.
i convered my weakness and his group is weak so have to run away... then i will play 2 ...it looks like a good shape for white..
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 2 X . X O W O , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X . 1 . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X . O O X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . X X . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . X O . O . X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . X . . X O . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . O O X O X O . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . O . X X X O . . O . . X . . |
$$ | . . . X O . . . . . O . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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"The more we think we know about
The greater the unknown"
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Offline daniel_the_smith
 Post subject: Re: ??. Magicwand (3d) vs. daniel_the_smith (1k)
Post #86 Posted: Sat Jun 19, 2010 8:32 pm 
Gosei
User avatar

Posts: 2116
Location: Silicon Valley
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Rank: 2d AGA
GD Posts: 1193
KGS: lavalamp
Tygem: imapenguin
IGS: lavalamp
OGS: daniel_the_smith
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . X O O O , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X . O O X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . B O . X X . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . X O . O . X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . X . . X O . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . O O X O X O . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . O . X X X O . . O . . X . . |
$$ | . . . X O . . . . . O . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Spending lots of time reading seems to pay off, haha... I should try it in all my games!

In addition to connecting my top group and going a long way to neutralize that single white stone, this threatens to cut his tail off, connecting my other group:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . X O O O , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X . O O X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . B O . X X . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X 3 1 2 X O . O . X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . X . . X O . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . O O X O X O . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . O . X X X O . . O . . X . . |
$$ | . . . X O . . . . . O . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I am feeling *really* good about this game right now...

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Offline Magicwand
 Post subject: Re: ??. Magicwand (3d) vs. daniel_the_smith (1k)
Post #87 Posted: Sat Jun 19, 2010 9:43 pm 
Tengen
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Posts: 4844
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KGS: magicwand
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DGS: magicwand
OGS: magicwand
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . X O O O , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X . O O X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X O . X X . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X W . . X O . O . X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . X . . X O . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . O O X O X O . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . O . X X X O . . O . . X . . |
$$ | . . . X O . . . . . O . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
now his middle group is in trouble..i will make sure i will get sente on lower left corner.

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Offline daniel_the_smith
 Post subject: Re: ??. Magicwand (3d) vs. daniel_the_smith (1k)
Post #88 Posted: Sun Jun 20, 2010 7:00 am 
Gosei
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . X O O O , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X . O O X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X O . X X . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X O . . X O . O . X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . B O . X . . X O . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . O O X O X O . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . O . X X X O . . O . . X . . |
$$ | . . . X O . . . . . O . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I almost moved last night and it's a good thing I didn't because I noticed this morning that if I responded how I wanted to originally (connecting in gote at (a) below), white can set up a horrible ko on the bottom (exercise for the reader to find it). This way leaves a lot of aji for white on the left but I think I will get sente again, which I will now use to stabilize my group. Or I might connect at (a) because there is an awful lot of bad aji there, I don't think white can kill my dragon.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc My plan
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . X O O O , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X . O O X . 4 . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . a X O . X X . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X O 1 . X O . O . X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . B O . X . . X O . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . 3 2 . O O X O X O . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . O . X X X O . . O . . X . . |
$$ | . . . X O . . . . . O . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


:b2: protects the cut in sente again. If I omit it, white can atari :bc: (which is sente against the left) and then the cut works for white. If white omits :w1: I think white's position just falls apart.

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Offline Magicwand
 Post subject: Re: ??. Magicwand (3d) vs. daniel_the_smith (1k)
Post #89 Posted: Sun Jun 20, 2010 7:04 am 
Tengen
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . X O O O , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X . O O X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X O . X X . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X O W . X O . O . X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . X O . X . . X O . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . O O X O X O . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . O . X X X O . . O . . X . . |
$$ | . . . X O . . . . . O . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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Offline daniel_the_smith
 Post subject: Re: ??. Magicwand (3d) vs. daniel_the_smith (1k)
Post #90 Posted: Sun Jun 20, 2010 8:39 am 
Gosei
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Move later tonight or tomorrow...

Not sure if :b2: in my hidden diagram is really necessary now. Also need to decide which is more important, the aji on the left or my group in the center.

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Offline daniel_the_smith
 Post subject: Re: ??. Magicwand (3d) vs. daniel_the_smith (1k)
Post #91 Posted: Mon Jun 21, 2010 9:28 am 
Gosei
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . X O O O , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X B O O X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X O . X X . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X O O . X O . O . X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . X O . X . . X O . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . O O X O X O . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . O . X X X O . . O . . X . . |
$$ | . . . X O . . . . . O . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Reduces the threat of :w1: below in sente. If I don't protect this ahead of time, white gets to play :w3::
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . X O O O , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X 2 O O X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 1 X O 5 X X . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . 3 X O O . X O . O . X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . 4 X O . X . . X O . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . a . O O X O X O . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . O . X X X O . . O . . X . . |
$$ | . . . X O . . . . . O . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I re-read black (a) and determined that it isn't necessary.

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Offline Magicwand
 Post subject: Re: ??. Magicwand (3d) vs. daniel_the_smith (1k)
Post #92 Posted: Mon Jun 21, 2010 9:38 am 
Tengen
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OGS: magicwand
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . X O O O , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X X O O X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X O W X X . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X O O . X O . O . X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . X O . X . . X O . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . O O X O X O . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . O . X X X O . . O . . X . . |
$$ | . . . X O . . . . . O . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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Offline daniel_the_smith
 Post subject: Re: ??. Magicwand (3d) vs. daniel_the_smith (1k)
Post #93 Posted: Mon Jun 21, 2010 11:13 am 
Gosei
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . X O O O , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X X O O X . . B . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X O O X X . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X O O . X O . O . X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . X O . X . . X O . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . O O X O X O . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . O . X X X O . . O . . X . . |
$$ | . . . X O . . . . . O . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Purpose of this is to make my group unassailable. It also gives me a huge moyo. White's dragon can be pressured still. I now have no weak groups. I most likely have a lot of cash on the left (I suspect he will try some sort of invasion there next). I have some cash and extensive potential on the right. White has 15 or so points on the bottom and potential on the top. I estimate (to early to be able to count this) that I'm at least ten, but more likely 20 or 30 points ahead. I do not think I have lost any (certainly not a whole stone's worth) of my handicap advantage yet.

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Offline Magicwand
 Post subject: Re: ??. Magicwand (3d) vs. daniel_the_smith (1k)
Post #94 Posted: Mon Jun 21, 2010 3:36 pm 
Tengen
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OGS: magicwand
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . W X . X O O O , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X X O O X . . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X O O X X . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X O O . X O . O . X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . X O . X . . X O . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . O O X O X O . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . O . X X X O . . O . . X . . |
$$ | . . . X O . . . . . O . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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Offline Magicwand
 Post subject: Re: ??. Magicwand (3d) vs. daniel_the_smith (1k)
Post #95 Posted: Tue Jun 22, 2010 5:22 am 
Tengen
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taking two stone is sente. after i get my sente back from the left side i will attack as below. everything is going fine. my opponent is playing well but not enough to win the game.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . W X . X O O O , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X . 4 5 . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X X O O X 8 3 X 9 . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X O O X X . 6 7 . X 1 . . . . |
$$ | . . . X O O . X O . O . X . 2 X . . . |
$$ | . . . . X O . X . . X O . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . O O X O X O . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . O . X X X O . . O . . X . . |
$$ | . . . X O . . . . . O . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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Offline daniel_the_smith
 Post subject: Re: ??. Magicwand (3d) vs. daniel_the_smith (1k)
Post #96 Posted: Tue Jun 22, 2010 11:22 am 
Gosei
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Sorry, haven't had a chance to read enough yet. Move later...
This is totally safe and probably sufficient:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . X O O O , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X X O O X . . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 1 X O O X X . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X O O . X O . O . X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . X O . X . . X O . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . O O X O X O . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . O . X X X O . . O . . X . . |
$$ | . . . X O . . . . . O . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


...but I can't let him bully me around and expect to win. I want to play here, I just need to make sure it doesn't end in disaster for me:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . X O O O , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . 1 . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X X O O X . . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X O O X X . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X O O . X O . O . X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . X O . X . . X O . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . O O X O X O . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . O . X X X O . . O . . X . . |
$$ | . . . X O . . . . . O . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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Offline daniel_the_smith
 Post subject: Re: ??. Magicwand (3d) vs. daniel_the_smith (1k)
Post #97 Posted: Tue Jun 22, 2010 11:56 am 
Gosei
User avatar

Posts: 2116
Location: Silicon Valley
Liked others: 152
Was liked: 330
Rank: 2d AGA
GD Posts: 1193
KGS: lavalamp
Tygem: imapenguin
IGS: lavalamp
OGS: daniel_the_smith
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . X O O O , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . B . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X X O O X . . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X O O X X . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X O O . X O . O . X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . X O . X . . X O . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . O O X O X O . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . O . X X X O . . O . . X . . |
$$ | . . . X O . . . . . O . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


OK, this seemed kind of obvious when I looked at the diagrams in my last post. I was inexplicably concerned by a white move at D7, but white ends up with two deadish groups after that, so it's clearly bad. I think white can live small (hopefully in gote) after this move. O15 looks like a good point for me after white gets stable. Hmm, or maybe L10...

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Offline Magicwand
 Post subject: Re: ??. Magicwand (3d) vs. daniel_the_smith (1k)
Post #98 Posted: Tue Jun 22, 2010 12:03 pm 
Tengen
User avatar

Posts: 4844
Location: Mechanicsburg, PA
Liked others: 62
Was liked: 505
Rank: Wbaduk 7D
KGS: magicwand
Tygem: magicwand
Wbaduk: rlatkfkd
DGS: magicwand
OGS: magicwand
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . X O O O , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X X O O X . . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X O O X X . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X O O . X O . O . X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . X O . X . . X O . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X W . . . O O X O X O . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . O . X X X O . . O . . X . . |
$$ | . . . X O . . . . . O . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
make sure i dont have any weakness before my attack.

_________________
"The more we think we know about
The greater the unknown"
Words by neil peart, music by geddy lee and alex lifeson
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Offline daniel_the_smith
 Post subject: Re: ??. Magicwand (3d) vs. daniel_the_smith (1k)
Post #99 Posted: Tue Jun 22, 2010 12:10 pm 
Gosei
User avatar

Posts: 2116
Location: Silicon Valley
Liked others: 152
Was liked: 330
Rank: 2d AGA
GD Posts: 1193
KGS: lavalamp
Tygem: imapenguin
IGS: lavalamp
OGS: daniel_the_smith
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . X O O O , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X X O O X . . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X O O X X . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X O O . X O . O . X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . B X O . X . . X O . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X O . . . O O X O X O . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . O . X X X O . . O . . X . . |
$$ | . . . X O . . . . . O . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Huh???

OK, unless I misread something (I don't think I did), this move just lost a bunch of aji for him on the left. Thank you.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc The cut doesn't work
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . X O O O , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X X O O X . . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X O O X X . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X O O . X O . O . X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . B X O 6 X . 3 X O . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X O 5 2 1 O O X O X O . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . O 4 X X X O . . O . . X . . |
$$ | . . . X O . . . . . O . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


(On tilt from his game vs. Violence?)

_________________
That which can be destroyed by the truth should be.
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Offline Magicwand
 Post subject: Re: ??. Magicwand (3d) vs. daniel_the_smith (1k)
Post #100 Posted: Tue Jun 22, 2010 12:14 pm 
Tengen
User avatar

Posts: 4844
Location: Mechanicsburg, PA
Liked others: 62
Was liked: 505
Rank: Wbaduk 7D
KGS: magicwand
Tygem: magicwand
Wbaduk: rlatkfkd
DGS: magicwand
OGS: magicwand
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . W . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . X O O O , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X X O O X . . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X O O X X . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X O O . X O . O . X . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . X X O . X . . X O . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X O . . . O O X O X O . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . O . X X X O . . O . . X . . |
$$ | . . . X O . . . . . O . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
kick and make his group another target...to build more influence.

_________________
"The more we think we know about
The greater the unknown"
Words by neil peart, music by geddy lee and alex lifeson
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