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Offline happysocks
 Post subject: Sensei's down can't dansoo with myself
Post #1 Posted: Mon Aug 04, 2014 11:16 pm 
Lives with ko

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Black to play
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ +---------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
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$$ | . . . . . . , . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X X X . |
$$ | . . . , . . . X X O O O X |
$$ | . . . . . . . X O . . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X O X O . X |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O . . O . |[/go]


Plowing through some of the easier problems in wbaduks collection tonight brought this one up along with a term I've seen used there before but am not sure of the meaning: "You can take advantage of whites self-dansoo and capture white." Guessing self-dansoo means something like putting oneself into a shortage of liberties since that's what this ones about (black can exchange k9 for white k7 and still has time to play at m8 because white can't n9 as oops self atari). Is this close? What would the literal translation be?

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Offline Charlie
 Post subject: Re: Sensei's down can't dansoo with myself
Post #2 Posted: Mon Aug 04, 2014 11:44 pm 
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Frankly, I have no idea what you're on about but...

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ +---------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
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$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . , . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X X X . |
$$ | . . . , . . . X X O O O X |
$$ | . . . . . . . X O 1 . O 2 |
$$ | . . . . . . . X O X O . X |
$$ | . . . . . . . 3 O . . O . |[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ +---------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . , . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X X X . |
$$ | . . . , . . . X X O O O X |
$$ | . . . . . . . X O 1 . O 3 |
$$ | . . . . . . . X O X O . X |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O 2 . O . |[/go]
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Offline RBerenguel
 Post subject: Re: Sensei's down can't dansoo with myself
Post #3 Posted: Mon Aug 04, 2014 11:53 pm 
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Charlie wrote:
Frankly, I have no idea what you're on about but...

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ +---------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . , . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X X X . |
$$ | . . . , . . . X X O O O X |
$$ | . . . . . . . X O 1 . O 2 |
$$ | . . . . . . . X O X O . X |
$$ | . . . . . . . 3 O . . O . |[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ +---------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . , . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X X X . |
$$ | . . . , . . . X X O O O X |
$$ | . . . . . . . X O 1 . O 3 |
$$ | . . . . . . . X O X O . X |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O 2 . O . |[/go]


Rethink 3 in your second answer

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This post by RBerenguel was liked by: Charlie
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Offline Abyssinica
 Post subject: Re: Sensei's down can't dansoo with myself
Post #4 Posted: Tue Aug 05, 2014 12:00 am 
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ +---------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . , . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X X X . |
$$ | . . . , . . . X X O O O X |
$$ | . . . . . . . X O 1 . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X O X O 3 X |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O 2 . O . |[/go]


This took way longer than it should have because I was fooling with N9 as black 1 for some reason.
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Offline RBerenguel
 Post subject: Re: Sensei's down can't dansoo with myself
Post #5 Posted: Tue Aug 05, 2014 12:05 am 
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Abyssinica wrote:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ +---------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . , . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X X X . |
$$ | . . . , . . . X X O O O X |
$$ | . . . . . . . X O 1 . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X O X O 3 X |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O 2 . O . |[/go]


This took way longer than it should have because I was fooling with N9 as black 1 for some reason.


:tmbup:

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Offline xed_over
 Post subject: Re: Sensei's down can't dansoo with myself
Post #6 Posted: Tue Aug 05, 2014 1:14 am 
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happysocks wrote:
a term I've seen used there before but am not sure of the meaning: "You can take advantage of whites self-dansoo and capture white."

yes, dansoo == atari
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Offline Charlie
 Post subject: Re: Sensei's down can't dansoo with myself
Post #7 Posted: Tue Aug 05, 2014 1:29 am 
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RBerenguel: strue. One should never submit tsumego solutions before their first cup of coffee.
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Offline RBerenguel
 Post subject: Re: Sensei's down can't dansoo with myself
Post #8 Posted: Tue Aug 05, 2014 2:49 am 
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Charlie wrote:
RBerenguel: strue. One should never submit tsumego solutions before their first cup of coffee.


We are in the same timezone (or 1 up/down) so... Totally true!

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Offline happysocks
 Post subject: Re: Sensei's down can't dansoo with myself
Post #9 Posted: Tue Aug 05, 2014 11:42 am 
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Charlie wrote:
Frankly, I have no idea what you're on about but...

Often wonder myself; but seeing your little dancer shimee up as first riposte made me smile. :)

Abyssinica wrote:
This took way longer than it should have...

Like running into these types of problems even though am not sure what it is about them exactly that frequently makes me pause, guess it's to do with the fuzzy picture that comes up after a few moves reading and that the stones being captured can't play to a vital point becaues would be selfie.

xed_over wrote:
yes, dansoo == atari

Ah, literally atari, yes, makes more sense. Thank you.


Time to find my first cup...

Thanks for playing everyone.


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Offline Aidoneus
 Post subject: Re: Sensei's down can't dansoo with myself
Post #10 Posted: Tue Aug 05, 2014 12:11 pm 
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Zombie dancing to the original:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FG1NrQYXjLU

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Offline EdLee
 Post subject:
Post #11 Posted: Tue Aug 05, 2014 12:52 pm 
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Quote:
dansoo == atari
Interesting, thanks for pointing this out.

I read it as an off-spelling of the katakana dansu ダンス, to dance,
and about not being able to dance with oneself.

Shall We Dansu ?

This post by EdLee was liked by: Bonobo
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Offline happysocks
 Post subject: Re: Sensei's down can't dansoo with myself
Post #12 Posted: Tue Aug 05, 2014 3:24 pm 
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Thanks for the links guys. Zombies freak me out so will leave that one for other viewers to enjoy. Masayuki film looks right up my alley.

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Offline Loons
 Post subject: Late to the party
Post #13 Posted: Sat Aug 09, 2014 5:50 pm 
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ +---------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . , . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . X X X . |
$$ | . . . , . . . X X O O O X |
$$ | . . . . . . . X O . . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X O X O . X |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O . . O . |
$$ +---------------------------+[/go]

One thing I dislike about tsumego like this is that there's an answer and there's an obvious answer, whereas in a game you don't know whether there's an answer or not.

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Offline DrStraw
 Post subject: Re: Late to the party
Post #14 Posted: Sat Aug 09, 2014 5:56 pm 
Oza

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Loons wrote:
One thing I dislike about tsumego like this is that there's an answer and there's an obvious answer, whereas in a game you don't know whether there's an answer or not.


There is always an answer in a game. We just don't always know what it is.

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Offline GoRo
 Post subject: Re: Late to the party
Post #15 Posted: Sun Aug 10, 2014 2:00 am 
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DrStraw wrote:
There is always an answer in a game. We just don't always know what it is.
First you have to find the question, otherwise there can't be an answer.
That's why sensei Hwang In-seong emphasizes his master's word:

Don't look for answers, but for questions.

This is shown at the very beginning of https://www.facebook.com/groups/yunguseng

Image

Cheers,
Rainer
(GoChild GoRo with 2289742 points)
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Offline Abyssinica
 Post subject: Re: Sensei's down can't dansoo with myself
Post #16 Posted: Sun Aug 10, 2014 5:26 am 
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Question: Is this solution only possible because I have just the right amount of liberties in this shape?

That's something I often ask when a tsumego answer is really close.
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