42. Joaz Banbeck (1d) vs. Araban (5d)

Magicwand · Post by **Magicwand** » Thu Jun 24, 2010 6:51 am

to Jonas:

exchange of 2 and 3 dont seem right to my eye and unnecessary.
if b plays 3 then variatons below is good enough to cut him off.
let me know if you disagree.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$c $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . O X . . 6 3 . X . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . O O . X . O . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . X , 5 4 . . X , O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . 1 . O . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X O . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . 2 . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . X , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Jonas · Post by **Jonas** » Thu Jun 24, 2010 8:26 am

Magicwand wrote:to Jonas:
exchange of 2 and 3 dont seem right to my eye and unnecessary.
if b plays 3 then variatons below is good enough to cut him off.
let me know if you disagree.
$$c
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . O X . . 6 3 . X . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . O O . X . O . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . X , 5 4 . . X , O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . 1 . O . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X O . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . 2 . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . X , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Cool, I didn't eben thought about this, so black is in even more despair?

Magicwand · Post by **Magicwand** » Thu Jun 24, 2010 8:48 am

Jonas wrote:
Cool, I didn't eben thought about this, so black is in even more despair?

not really.. i think black can play a or b (brain stroming points). but 1 doesnt look good to my eyes because it is making his group heavy. in my opinion black is down but not by much.
but sometimes that little tilt is all they need to finish the game.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$c $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . O X . . . a . X . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . O O . X . O . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . X , . . . . X , O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . 1 . O . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . c . . . X . X O . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . b O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . X , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

SpongeBob · Post by **SpongeBob** » Thu Jun 24, 2010 1:21 pm

Kie · Post by **Kie** » Thu Jun 24, 2010 1:50 pm

Maybe just a simple move to go out is viable here. The square-marked stones are light since white already has spent quite some moves there already so capturing these stones in a too direct way is simply bad for white. There is also (a) left for black.

If black gets to get out in the center ahead of white, the triangle-marked stones along with :b3:

are now slowly starting to form a powerful center-influence.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bc Move 20 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . O # . . . a . X . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . O O . # . O . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . # , . . . . X , O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . 2 . . X . X O . | $$ | . . . Y . . . . . . . . . 1 . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . Y . . . . . , . . . . Y , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Post by **Joaz Banbeck** » Thu Jun 24, 2010 6:57 pm

The a/c in my store started making strange noises, so I spent most of this afternoon up on the roof of my building, trying to fix it. It is a big box the size of a small car, and full of all kinds of wiring.

So, probably no post today.

Post by **Joaz Banbeck** » Fri Jun 25, 2010 8:16 am

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$c Move 21 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . O X . . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . O O . X . O . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . X , . . . . X , O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X O . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . B O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . X , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

The reason that I finally decided on this move was not only the central influence issue mentioned in my previous post, but because it does seem to be sente.

This, in conjuction with my high stones on the south side, is unpleasant:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$c $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . O X . . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . O O . X . O . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . X , . . . . X , O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X O . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . X , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

He can extend, but that is passive and I might be able to take time out to make lower right territory and undercut him like this:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wc $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . O X . . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . O O . X . O . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . X , . . . . X , O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X O . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . B O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . X , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Or he can hane and I extend, but then he has the cutting points at 'a' and 'b', and also I can make him heavy in the middle with a serious attack:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wc If 3 covers the cutting points $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . O X . . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . O O . X . O . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . X , . 4 5 . X , O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . 6 . O . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X O . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . O b . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 B O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 a . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . X , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

The following line is just one example of how the cutting points can be used later.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wc My guess of 3 is rather arbitrary, just to illustrate a concept $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . O X . . . 4 6 X . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . O O . X . O 5 7 8 0 . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . X , . . . . X 9 O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . 3 . . X . X O . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 B O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . X , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

...which can continue like this:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wc Will he see 4 and 6 coming? $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . O X . . 2 X X X . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . O O . X 1 O O O X X . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . X , . . . 5 X O O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . 3 4 . 6 . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . . X . X O . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . X , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

...and then like this:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wc $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . O X . . 2 X X X . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . O O . X 1 O O O X X . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . X , . . . O . O O 3 . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O X 1 X 5 | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . . X 2 X O . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . O 4 . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X O 6 . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . X , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Post by **Solomon** » Fri Jun 25, 2010 3:08 pm

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$c Move 22 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . O X . . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . O O . X . O . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . X W . . . . X , O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X O . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . X , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$c Move 22 $$ ---------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . O X . . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . O O . X . O . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . X O . . . . X , O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X O . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . X , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ----------------------------------------[/go]

My last move looks slow, but I think a better word is "steady". It's easier to see the value in the move when you imagine Black playing there, which cuts off my two stones at the top because it prevents me from connecting underneath at L18. This is something I don't want to happen, especially after Black invested yet another move at P12 which could make for a more difficult escape route for my two stones if they were to be separated.
---
On move 20, I reviewed the first 10 out of the last 20 moves so now I would like to go over 11 - 20 (I repeated the diagram twice between chunks of paragraphs so the reader doesn't have to scroll to keep track of coordinates and make it easier on the eyes):

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm11 Moves 11 - 20 $$ ---------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . 4 3 . . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . 6 2 . X . O . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . 5 , . . . . X , O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . 9 0 . | $$ | . . . 7 . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 8 . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . X , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ----------------------------------------[/go]

was to be expected. After all, it is a running fight and he is running out with that stone to prevent getting sealed in.

:w12:

is a counter-pincer and an extension from D16, so how can I resist? However, the move is not so severe on L17 because B always has the option of connecting underneath, though at a cost (hurting P16). I think it's safe to say that :b13:

-

was really the first mistake in the game. :b13:

for

only makes my top stronger, and then :b15:

forces me to play :w16:

, which is a move I was to play anyways! When you force your opponent to do something he was planning to do anyways, that is a thank-you move. But what does B get? Well, J18 is on the verge of getting captured and remains a large endgame play for me, while :b15:

is just dangling off :w12:

without much purpose. These stones do not add any pressure to my N17 group either. Thus we can conclude that the exchange was bad for B.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm11 Moves 11 - 20 $$ ---------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . 4 3 . . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . 6 2 . X . O . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . 5 , . . . . X , O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . 9 0 . | $$ | . . . 7 . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 8 . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . X , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ----------------------------------------[/go]

is interesting, certainly a light move. However, because it's far away from D16 I can safely play elsewhere and deal with it later. The problem with :b17:

is not the move itself, but the timing of it. The top is still not settled! This opens up the opportunity for me to play :w18:

, which not only threatens to block B off from the center with O13 but also gives me more control over the center as well since the kosumi is a solid, although at times slow, move.

I think :b19:

is also questionable. It forces me to strengthen my connection between R13 and R16. Despite the presence of :w18:

, S14 was still a potential weak spot for my group if Black gains control on the outside, but now this is something I don't need to worry about any more. Furthermore it leaves me with the endgame play of Q14 to eat :b19:

.

Post by **Joaz Banbeck** » Fri Jun 25, 2010 4:47 pm

Got the a/c fixed!

Post by **Joaz Banbeck** » Sat Jun 26, 2010 12:19 am

The more I look at this, the more confused I am. Was he really worried that I would connect there?
My M17 stone wants to go south or east. It doesn't want to run westward, nor does it want to become heavy by connecting to J16. The J16 stone is just a sacrifice stone to keep him low and busy while the M17 stone does the work.

I've made it very clear from about the 5th stone that I played - and several more since then - that my intention is to attack his N15/N17 stones. Why doesn't he run?

And why does he allow me the hane at Q11?

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$c Move 22 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . O X . . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . O O . X . O . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . X W . . . . X , O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X O . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . X , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Post by **Joaz Banbeck** » Sun Jun 27, 2010 11:30 am

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$c Move 23 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . O X . . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . O O . X . O . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . X O B . . . X , O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X O . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . X , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

In honor of America's upcoming Independence Day, my honorable opponent and I bring you fireworks.

Besides that, the situation on the board requires it. ( I would have started a fight here even if it were Mother's day. )

I think that MHO's latest move was slow, and the wrong direction. I say 'slow' because a more active move like N13 helps his stones and endangers mine. The move that he chose endangers mine, but fails help the N15/N17 stones.

I say 'the wrong direction' because it helps my direction of play. As stated earlier, my L17 stone wants to go south or east. That much has been obvious since the board looked like this:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$c $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . O . X . O . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . X , O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . X , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ --------------------------------------- $$ {AR L18 N18} $$ {AR L16 L14}[/go]

By playing the shoulder hit, MHO provokes my L17 stone to go in one of the directions thit it wanted to go. It looks at first glance that I may be pushing from behind here, but sooner or later as I march south along the L file, and he marches south on the K file, he has to take time out to preserve the target stones at N15/N17, and then I will get ahead.
He can attempt the hane while my stones have not yet gone very far, but it ends up like this:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wc Move 23 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . O X . . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . O O 3 X . O . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . X O B 6 . . X , O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . 2 1 4 O . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . 5 . . . X . X O . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . X , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Black either kills or gets out and runs, and if black runs, sooner or later :w1:

and

are dogmeat.

So he has to allow me at least one more move southward. Then there are interesting plays in the offing.

If he plays too solidly, there is this:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$c $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . O X . . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . O O . X . O . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . X O 1 . 5 . X , O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . 2 3 . O . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . 4 . . . . X . X O . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . X , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

...and the variations branch too much to show here. I think that most of them favor me.

If he hanes, then I have the thematic slide under:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wc $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . O X . . . 6 . X . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . O O . X . O . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . X O B . . . X , O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . 1 2 5 O . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . 3 4 . . X . X O . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |[/go]

...which continues like this:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wc Move 23 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . O X . . 0 6 8 X . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . O O . X 9 O 7 . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . X O B . . . X , O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . 1 2 5 O . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . 3 4 . . X . X O . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |[/go]

...and next black interposes a few sente moves so that when 'a' is eventually occupied, 'b' is not a killer, then continues with the standard joseki, blocking with :b6:

...

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wc $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . O X . b X X X X . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . O O 4 X O O O 1 6 . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . X O X a . . X 7 O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . 5 O X O O . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . 2 O X . . X . X O . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . 3 . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |[/go]

...and we have reached the point where black has two stones hanging, and in the standard joseki black takes territory with 'c', and then white kills the cutting stone with 'd':

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wc $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . O X . . X X X X . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . O O X X O O O O B c . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . X O X . . . B O O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . O O X O O . d . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . X O X . . X . X O . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . O . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |[/go]

But, here the sacrifice stone at R14, has a surprise benefit that I didn't see when I played it:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bc Black preserves the cutting stone with 1 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . O X . . X X X X 2 4 6 . | $$ | . . . . . . . O O X X O O O O X 3 5 f | $$ | . . . O . . . . X O X h i j X O O 7 g | $$ | . . . . . . . . O O X O O 1 . . d e . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . X O X . . X . B O . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . O . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |[/go]

In the above diagram, white would usually play 'e', and would be ahead in the liberties race: black would have two liberties at 'f' and 'g'; white would have three liberties at 'h', 'i', and 'j'. But now if white plays 'e', 'd' kills him. So white must play 'd' himself, giving black the edge in the liberties race.

( As a side issue, there may be something very profound about shape inadvertently illustrated in this game, when a move like R14 which was intended for one benefit also has others. I wish that I understood it. Enlightening comments are welcome. Please leave them unhidden as much as possible.)

Anyway, back to the liberties race...

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wc $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . O X . . X X X X O O O . | $$ | . . . . . . . O O X X O O O O X X X . | $$ | . . . O . . . . X O X . 2 . X O O X . | $$ | . . . . . . . . O O X O O X . . 1 . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . X O X . . X . X O . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . O . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |[/go]

It ends when black kills with :b2:

.

Oh, BTW, yes there can be a ko fight when I slide under. I think that it favors me. I'll post more on that later if I have time.

Prodigious · Post by **Prodigious** » Sun Jun 27, 2010 2:00 pm

Joaz Banbeck wrote:

He can attempt the hane while my stones have not yet gone very far, but it ends up like this:

$$Wc Move 23
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O X . . . . . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O O 3 X . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . X O B 6 . . X , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . 2 1 4 O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . 5 . . . X . X O . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . X , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc Move 23 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . O X . . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . O O 3 X . O . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . X O B 6 . . X , O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . 2 1 4 O . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . 5 . . . X . X O . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . X , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Black either kills or gets out and runs, and if black runs, sooner or later and are dogmeat.

So he has to allow me at least one more move southward. Then there are interesting plays in the offing.

Not for the players.

daniel_the_smith · Post by **daniel_the_smith** » Sun Jun 27, 2010 2:13 pm

Also not for players.

Post by **Solomon** » Sun Jun 27, 2010 2:20 pm

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$c Move 24 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . O X . . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . O O . X . O . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . X O X . . . X , O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . W . O . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X O . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . X , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$c Move 24 $$ ---------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . O X a . . . . X . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . O O . X . W . . b . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . X O X . . . X , O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . O . W . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X O . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . X , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ----------------------------------------[/go]

This move is also obvious, albeit a bit more difficult to explain why. The best way I can explain it is that it blocks Black's access to the center and threatens to link up with N15 at the same time. However, I am not pressured to save either of the marked stones ( :wc:

) if I gain enough profit on the outside to compensate for the gain of territory on top for Black. This is not difficult to accomplish because already Black is getting squeezed a bit here (can I call it a loose squeeze? Does that make any sense?

). Furthermore, with endgame plays such as 'a' and 'b', the top will pretty much end up overconcentrated for Black.

I hope people enjoyed my analysis over the first 20 moves and that it made sense. Are people preferring the way I've been doing it so far or the old way (e.g: video commentary, or the way I did it in my first game against Joaz)? Feedback much appreciated!

40/60

daniel_the_smith · Post by **daniel_the_smith** » Sun Jun 27, 2010 4:48 pm

@Araban

@observers

Life In 19x19

42. Joaz Banbeck (1d) vs. Araban (5d)

Re: 42. Joaz Banbeck (1d) vs. Araban (5d)

Re: 42. Joaz Banbeck (1d) vs. Araban (5d)

Re: 42. Joaz Banbeck (1d) vs. Araban (5d)

Re: 42. Joaz Banbeck (1d) vs. Araban (5d)

Re: 42. Joaz Banbeck (1d) vs. Araban (5d)

Re: 42. Joaz Banbeck (1d) vs. Araban (5d)

Re: 42. Joaz Banbeck (1d) vs. Araban (5d)

Re: 42. Joaz Banbeck (1d) vs. Araban (5d)

Re: 42. Joaz Banbeck (1d) vs. Araban (5d)

Re: 42. Joaz Banbeck (1d) vs. Araban (5d)

Re: 42. Joaz Banbeck (1d) vs. Araban (5d)

Re: 42. Joaz Banbeck (1d) vs. Araban (5d)

Re: 42. Joaz Banbeck (1d) vs. Araban (5d)

Re: 42. Joaz Banbeck (1d) vs. Araban (5d)

Re: 42. Joaz Banbeck (1d) vs. Araban (5d)