Good self analysis. I see you worry mostly about connection and this is indeed very important.
More analysis of that game below. Don't pause for too long at it. Next game is the most important one, applying lessons learnt.
Seven stones
-
Knotwilg
- Oza
- Posts: 2432
- Joined: Fri Jan 14, 2011 6:53 am
- Rank: KGS 2d OGS 1d Fox 4d
- GD Posts: 0
- KGS: Artevelde
- OGS: Knotwilg
- Online playing schedule: UTC 18:00 - 22:00
- Location: Ghent, Belgium
- Has thanked: 360 times
- Been thanked: 1021 times
- Contact:
-
Bill Spight
- Honinbo
- Posts: 10905
- Joined: Wed Apr 21, 2010 1:24 pm
- Has thanked: 3651 times
- Been thanked: 3373 times
Re: Return of the newbie
A couple of comments, focused on alternatives to empty triangles. 
The Adkins Principle:
At some point, doesn't thinking have to go on?
— Winona Adkins
Visualize whirled peas.
Everything with love. Stay safe.
At some point, doesn't thinking have to go on?
— Winona Adkins
Visualize whirled peas.
Everything with love. Stay safe.
-
Thimblefox
- Dies in gote
- Posts: 42
- Joined: Thu Feb 26, 2015 8:29 am
- Rank: IGS 15k
- GD Posts: 0
- Universal go server handle: Thimblefox
- Has thanked: 12 times
Re: Return of the newbie
I'll take with me how to handle that cut at 21, and how to connect at 41. I did play a game after this one focusing solely on avoiding empty triangles, didn't quite work out.
-
skydyr
- Oza
- Posts: 2495
- Joined: Wed Aug 01, 2012 8:06 am
- GD Posts: 0
- Universal go server handle: skydyr
- Online playing schedule: When my wife is out.
- Location: DC
- Has thanked: 156 times
- Been thanked: 436 times
Re: Return of the newbie
Just a quick comment on the first game: If you look at the board, very early on white basically conceded the entire right half of the board to black, and then proceeded to fight over the left half. This is not how to play go: you need at least half the points to win! White's initial invasion was still somewhat reasonable, as you can make a jump into the center and start running while splitting black, but it is hard. The key takeaway, though, is that when black claims half the board like that, he must be challenged, or you may as well resign.
Comments on the second game:
Comments on the second game:
- Attachments
-
- fox9.sgf
- (8.36 KiB) Downloaded 698 times
-
Thimblefox
- Dies in gote
- Posts: 42
- Joined: Thu Feb 26, 2015 8:29 am
- Rank: IGS 15k
- GD Posts: 0
- Universal go server handle: Thimblefox
- Has thanked: 12 times
Re: Return of the newbie
Yeah, but I decided to save what I had and come stronger back in the next game. Else I'd just make tons of cuts and lose by even more, that's what I was thinking at least. At any rate, I just played a game where I took half the board, but because my reading skill is still crap I let my opponent invade although it shouldn't have worked at all.
But that's good. Next game I do the same without letting my opponent invade, and the game is won. Or.. I learn a valuable lesson.
I've started doing tsumego at goproblems.com, and I'm still waiting for a book with life and death problems.
But that's good. Next game I do the same without letting my opponent invade, and the game is won. Or.. I learn a valuable lesson.
I've started doing tsumego at goproblems.com, and I'm still waiting for a book with life and death problems.-
EdLee
- Honinbo
- Posts: 8859
- Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 6:49 pm
- GD Posts: 312
- Location: Santa Barbara, CA
- Has thanked: 349 times
- Been thanked: 2070 times
Hi Thimblefox,
Game 1:
No, this is not where you lost the game. No problem.
Your note about A is correct -- the right side gap is 1 space wider -- simple fundamental to remember. But, the K16 
stone is on the 4th line, versus the R9 stone on 3rd -- so it's tricky.
Anyway, this is not where you lost the game, so no problem either way.
correct basic shape.
You don't take care of your (now) heavy o16 group. You create another weak group. This is a problem. You'll be very busy.
, 
Your is a possibility, but your pull-back is too heavy, and you hurt your o16 group even more. Not good.
Instead of pull-back, you had to read other options, such as L16 cross-cut and start a local fight.
This is a problem with your reading, as you mentioned, and your fight skills.
This is where you start to get into trouble.
Again, you create a weak group Q5 and abandon it. Not good.
... 
If this is your "strategy", you might as well resign.
There's a Chinese saying to describe this way of play: to die a peaceful death.
You can clearly see, even before through ,
that Black controls a much bigger part of the board than you.
You must jump in and fight -- you may get completely wiped out, yes,
but it's much better to lose by fighting hard than just give up completely.
Yes, e2 hane is the only move. This is the kind of mistakes that's important. This is a 20-point+ mistake. Just one move.
This is important. ( Not . )
Bad habit. Just connect. Important basic to learn.
If you had simply connected on , then this would be gote. Now, it's sente. This is one reason is bad.
Bad. Broken shape. Bad shape. The combination of 
and is bad.
Important basic to learn.
Game 1:
No, this is not where you lost the game. No problem. Your note about A is correct -- the right side gap is 1 space wider -- simple fundamental to remember. But, the K16 stone is on the 4th line, versus the R9 stone on 3rd -- so it's tricky.Anyway, this is not where you lost the game, so no problem either way.
correct basic shape. You don't take care of your (now) heavy o16 group. You create another weak group. This is a problem. You'll be very busy. , Your is a possibility, but your pull-back is too heavy, and you hurt your o16 group even more. Not good.Instead of
pull-back, you had to read other options, such as L16 cross-cut and start a local fight.This is a problem with your reading, as you mentioned, and your fight skills.
This is where you start to get into trouble.
Again, you create a weak group Q5 and abandon it. Not good. ... If this is your "strategy", you might as well resign.There's a Chinese saying to describe this way of play: to die a peaceful death.
You can clearly see, even before
through ,that Black controls a much bigger part of the board than you.
You must jump in and fight -- you may get completely wiped out, yes,
but it's much better to lose by fighting hard than just give up completely.
Yes, e2 hane is the only move. This is the kind of mistakes that's important. This is a 20-point+ mistake. Just one move.This is important. ( Not
. ) Bad habit. Just connect. Important basic to learn. If you had simply connected on , then this would be gote. Now, it's sente. This is one reason is bad. Bad. Broken shape. Bad shape. The combination of and is bad.Important basic to learn.
-
EdLee
- Honinbo
- Posts: 8859
- Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 6:49 pm
- GD Posts: 312
- Location: Santa Barbara, CA
- Has thanked: 349 times
- Been thanked: 2070 times
Yes, and that's a big fundamental problem for these levels, for our levels.Thimblefox wrote:my reading skill is still crap
Our levels are determined "mostly" by our reading.
(I only have anecdotal evidence for this; no hard data.)
For example, in game 1,
, , , , , -- important basics to study. ( Problem is not 
or . ) ... Global assessment -- higher level problem.To improve our level, at this phase, means to improve our reading,
which in turn means acquiring a vast amount of knowledge about
basic shapes (
, , , etc. ), basic fighting skills ( ),basic tesujis, basic life-and-death (
, ), etc.Don't stress over nebulous things (
, ) -- Less important.Focus on the details (
, , ) -- Critical.-
Knotwilg
- Oza
- Posts: 2432
- Joined: Fri Jan 14, 2011 6:53 am
- Rank: KGS 2d OGS 1d Fox 4d
- GD Posts: 0
- KGS: Artevelde
- OGS: Knotwilg
- Online playing schedule: UTC 18:00 - 22:00
- Location: Ghent, Belgium
- Has thanked: 360 times
- Been thanked: 1021 times
- Contact:
Re: Return of the newbie
Hi,
From game 2 you have drawn correct conclusions.
For game 1 your conclusions are somewhat misguided. I concur with skydyr: "The key takeaway, though, is that when black claims half the board like that, he must be challenged, or you may as well resign."
And obviously EdLee has made a good technical analysis too.
From game 2 you have drawn correct conclusions.
For game 1 your conclusions are somewhat misguided. I concur with skydyr: "The key takeaway, though, is that when black claims half the board like that, he must be challenged, or you may as well resign."
And obviously EdLee has made a good technical analysis too.
-
Thimblefox
- Dies in gote
- Posts: 42
- Joined: Thu Feb 26, 2015 8:29 am
- Rank: IGS 15k
- GD Posts: 0
- Universal go server handle: Thimblefox
- Has thanked: 12 times
Re: Return of the newbie
Hi EdLee,
It just seems like I'd want to avoid playing this move at all. Well, maybe I could try to build a wall and isolate K16, would that be an idea?
...: I see these moves as very psychological, and symptomatic of something that used to happen when I played Go a couple of years ago. Maybe I have those old sgf-files still, but at any rate I noticed that after I played something similar to this, I would play a lot better in the following games, and because of that I saw it as a sort of good sign when I reviewed the game. But let's see how I do in my upcoming games!
...: I'll try to keep this in mind.
: You mean something like this?
It just seems like I'd want to avoid playing this move at all. Well, maybe I could try to build a wall and isolate K16, would that be an idea?...: I see these moves as very psychological, and symptomatic of something that used to happen when I played Go a couple of years ago. Maybe I have those old sgf-files still, but at any rate I noticed that after I played something similar to this, I would play a lot better in the following games, and because of that I saw it as a sort of good sign when I reviewed the game. But let's see how I do in my upcoming games!...: I'll try to keep this in mind.: You mean something like this? -
EdLee
- Honinbo
- Posts: 8859
- Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 6:49 pm
- GD Posts: 312
- Location: Santa Barbara, CA
- Has thanked: 349 times
- Been thanked: 2070 times
-
EdLee
- Honinbo
- Posts: 8859
- Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 6:49 pm
- GD Posts: 312
- Location: Santa Barbara, CA
- Has thanked: 349 times
- Been thanked: 2070 times
is very bad for Black,
makes a broken shape for Black:
-
EdLee
- Honinbo
- Posts: 8859
- Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 6:49 pm
- GD Posts: 312
- Location: Santa Barbara, CA
- Has thanked: 349 times
- Been thanked: 2070 times
to show you the bad shape.-
EdLee
- Honinbo
- Posts: 8859
- Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 6:49 pm
- GD Posts: 312
- Location: Santa Barbara, CA
- Has thanked: 349 times
- Been thanked: 2070 times
Hi Thimblefox, Here's another example to show you the broken shape:
If W plays --
It's very natural for Black to block with --
But if Black ignores , then W pushes through with 
, and makes the same broken shape for Black:
Basic broken shape for Black:
See also Toothpaste.
--
It's very natural for Black to block with --
But if Black ignores , then W pushes through with , and makes the same broken shape for Black:
Basic broken shape for Black:
See also Toothpaste. -
Uberdude
- Judan
- Posts: 6727
- Joined: Thu Nov 24, 2011 11:35 am
- Rank: UK 4 dan
- GD Posts: 0
- KGS: Uberdude 4d
- OGS: Uberdude 7d
- Location: Cambridge, UK
- Has thanked: 436 times
- Been thanked: 3718 times
Re: Return of the newbie
The problem with all this discussion about 76 being bad and broken shape is 76 is actually a good move. Yes it makes a broken shape with 74, but 74 has already served its purpose in making black answer and is no longer an important stone. It's okay to hurt unimportant stones if you do something important, namely here fix the serious problem of black pushing at 76 and cutting if you block. This problem is made worse because of the earlier mistakes at 68 and 70 leaving cutting points.
Talking of what's important, are 72 and 74 really sente? What happens if black ignores and plays at 76 himself?
Talking of what's important, are 72 and 74 really sente? What happens if black ignores and plays at 76 himself?
-
Thimblefox
- Dies in gote
- Posts: 42
- Joined: Thu Feb 26, 2015 8:29 am
- Rank: IGS 15k
- GD Posts: 0
- Universal go server handle: Thimblefox
- Has thanked: 12 times
Re:
Sorry, I meantEdLee wrote:Hi Thimblefox,Thimblefox wrote:
In game 1, your
What do you mean ?
, from there on looks good to me too. 