So I've been studying Contact Fights which suggests (as an advanced level concern) that you should play an "interrupt" (some other sente sequence) to clarify which choice you should make when playing out a joseki with a choice in it. I don't think there's much choice in this joseki, but is playing out this joseki straight like this optimal or would it be good to play it piecemeal? White gets sente and center/side facing influence, so I don't think white minds playing it out straight (a strong wall like this is maximally effective this early in the game). But maybe black should initiate the invasion then play some other moves up top to limit the usefulness of white's coming thickness along the side. Or hold off on the 3-3 invasion just yet?

I don't think either player wants to tenuki once that joseki has been initiated.

It's ugly and it allows white better endgame than r13/14.

Personally I think I would play r14; then white has to choose between stabilizing the two stones or defending against the invasion.

Cut first, think later!

Actually, I usually try to find a "most resistance variation" from black in order to get some idea about worst-case-scenarios. I usually like to drag out games and slowly wear my opponent down, so I dislike losing games early and thus try to avoid disaster whenever possible. It doesn't always work but hope lives on.

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[go]$$Wc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . 9 . . a b . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . O X 4 . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . X . . O 3 X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 8 . 2 1 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X 5 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 6 7 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . O O O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Can (9) be played at (a) or (b), if so, then this variation is quite good for white. Either way, white should be more or less ok here.

Woah, i opened several malkoich games and as always i began to read all comments. I clicked "show" and than fast thought came to my mind. "IS IT MY GAME!?!!?". IT wasn't, but now I need to be more carefull.

White strongest move is S15 and then I am screwed. I can live in gote in corner >_> I think I will sacrifice corner take outside and sente. I don't know why i had not considered W:s15 before >_>

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[go]$$Wc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 7 5 6 . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . O X X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . X . . O O X 2 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 . X O 1 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . O O O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

One possibility

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[go]$$Wc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 4 . 6 . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . O X X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . X . . O O X 2 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O 1 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . O O O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Both are bad... I'll decide after next 3 moves. It's needs very much reading

I'll stick with the plan. Not sure what black can do to get a good result here.

If it goes like this:

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[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 7 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 6 8 4 5 . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . c . . . O X X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . X . . O O X . b |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 . X O 9 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O a . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 2 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . O O O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

The black stones on the outside are more or less useless and black's corner territory is not that impressive. White made points on the right and the top group is not in any danger.

So I've been studying Contact Fights which suggests (as an advanced level concern) that you should play an "interrupt" (some other sente sequence) to clarify which choice you should make when playing out a joseki with a choice in it. I don't think there's much choice in this joseki, but is playing out this joseki straight like this optimal or would it be good to play it piecemeal? White gets sente and center/side facing influence, so I don't think white minds playing it out straight (a strong wall like this is maximally effective this early in the game). But maybe black should initiate the invasion then play some other moves up top to limit the usefulness of white's coming thickness along the side. Or hold off on the 3-3 invasion just yet?

The thing is, once black has gone into the 3-3 point, neither player can afford to leave the area. Most joseki offer at least some degree of freedom, both variation-wise and tenuki-wise, but after black invades at 3-3 and white chooses to block this way, there really aren't any possible variations - every move is critical.

Also, white's wall can often end up unstable later in the game. I personally do not think it is too intimidating.

To add a few things about that joseki - there are basically two reasons why you'd want to tenuki. 1) There is a really big sente move elsewhere, and/or 2) You want to see how your opponent responds before choosing what to do with the pincered stone.

In either of those cases, the only time you'd want to tenuki is immediately after white plays the pincer and before you jump in the corner. At that point your investment is at its smallest, so you can treat your approach stone lightly if white does not respond to your tenuki (or responds in some way that somehow makes the original approach stone unimportant).

Also, after you've jumped into the corner, you no longer have a choice of direction. You're committed, and you've made an investment. Only white gets to pick a direction at that point. Before jumping in, you have several other options - jumping up, making a second approach to change direction, etc.

And I agree that the usefulness of white's wall is a lot smaller than it looks. I can't count how many games I've played that joseki in (from either side) where the "wall" turns into a weak, heavy group or even dies. Black, on the other hand, has a 100% alive group and solid territory. White ostensibly gets sente, but really, the wall needs another move eventually to settle it (e.g. an extension) because of the aji of the outside stone. He can't go and launch a strong attack right away or anything.

Just for sake of being consistent. Will write var at next move.

So after next move

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[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 O 1 . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . O X X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . X . . O O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X O 3 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . O O O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

I'll do the solid connection after all, there is more danger in the corner for black now:

Smells like ko:

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[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X 4 7 |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . O X X 6 8 |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . X . . O O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X O 1 3 |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O 2 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . O O O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Or death:

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[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 5 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X 7 6 |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . O X X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . X . . O O X . 3 |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X O 1 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O 2 8 |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . O O O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

With the hane in place, black has the tesuji of

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[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X 4 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O O X 5 . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . O X X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . X . . O O X . 3 |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X O 1 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O 2 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . O O O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

This is very rough analysis, I haven't checked all the variations, but the feeling is that black isn't 100% alive. The problem is that white isn't 100% either now, so I have to watch out.

Corner atm is unsettled and it's black's move. This shape is L+1 shape and can be found on senseis. Now he cna kill with hane. If he do so I'll take O16. I don't think I can with semeai, but it's one way street since the cut. I think i shouldn't play q17 before :<, or even q14. It's really bad feeling to play first turn game in long time and fail so badly >_>

Black seem to intend to force white to live first, and then go back and add a move in the corner. I think playing the ko-variation would have been black's strongest variation. I will attempt to break out now, since black must go back and add a move in the corner later, I should be able to break out in sente and be able take the initiative in the game.

It's still one way street since the Q17 bump. If I'd decide to safe corner now I would loose tempo and momentum. I know it's bad result, but going from this road is far worse. Crap, I wanted peacefull game with easy reading.

I'll just split here and aim to kill one of the three groups. I think it's clear that the game is good for white right now.

This stone will be usefull in nearly all var i see