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Offline shapenaji
 Post subject: Re: Big Brother Malkovich # 1 (continued)
Post #221 Posted: Sun Jul 04, 2010 9:08 am 
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I don't love this move, but it costs 4 points to change, and I feel like this is alright. Basically, my issue with this move is that we're going to get really over-concentrated trying to help a single stone.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O . O X . . . . a . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . O X X . . . . . . 1 2 . . . |
$$ | . X X O O X O X . X . O . . 3 , X . . |
$$ | X X O X . X O O X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O X . . . O . . X . . . . . 4 . . |
$$ | . . O X . . X . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . |[/go]


black has a pretty brutal move at "a" later

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Offline Gresil
 Post subject: Re: Big Brother Malkovich # 1 (continued)
Post #222 Posted: Tue Jul 06, 2010 7:09 am 
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc 61A: W 31, B 28
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O . O X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . O X X . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O X O X . X . O . . . , X . . |
$$ | X X O X . X O O X . . . . . B . . . . |
$$ | . O O X . . . O . . X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . X . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O X . X . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc 61A: W 31, B 28
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O . O X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . O X X . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O X O X . X . O . . . , X . . |
$$ | X X O X . X O O X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O X . . . O . . X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . X . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . B . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O X . X . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

This slow tug was my #2 option.

Arguments against the keima cap:
- I can't predict :w2: at all
- White is able to tenuki and still make a living group on the top
- L12, the other candidate move, is a focal point

Arguments against the jump:
- May provoke the white center group to strengthen itself at the expense of the black group on its left side and return in sente to further attack the top right corner.
- White would not play in that area yet if it was his turn, and he definitely won't play there in response to the keima cap.


Other moves I considered:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc 61A: W 31, B 28
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O . O X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . O X X . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O X O X . X . O . 2 1 , X . . |
$$ | X X O X . X O O X . . . . 4 3 . . . . |
$$ | . O O X . . . O . . X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . X . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O X . X . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

This weakens my top center group. L12 is looming.


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc 61A: W 31, B 28
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O . O X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . O X X . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O X O X . X . O . . . , X . . |
$$ | X X O X . X O O X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O X . . . O . . X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . X . O . . . . . . . 1 . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O X . X . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

This is too wimpy.



Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc 61A: W 31, B 28
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O . O X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . O X X . . . 1 2 . O . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O X O X . X . O . . . , X . . |
$$ | X X O X . X O O X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O X . . . O . . X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . X . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O X . X . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

I have no idea what happens and I don't know what I would be trying to achieve here.

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Offline topazg
 Post subject: Re: Big Brother Malkovich # 1 (continued)
Post #223 Posted: Tue Jul 06, 2010 12:28 pm 
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Not approved :)

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc 61B: W 33, B 28
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O . O X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . O X X . . . . . . O B . . . |
$$ | . X X O O X O X . X . O . . . , X . . |
$$ | X X O X . X O O X . . . . . C . . . . |
$$ | . O O X . . . O . . X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . X . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O X . X . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Let's hold this corner, and bumpy over-concentrate White. There's no point attacking more severely with the slide in the corner open, so let's have fun on this side. White can't run his way out to happiness without hurting his floating middle group, so there's still some awkward decisions for White to make. This feels worth 2 points to me.
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Offline Violence
 Post subject: Re: Big Brother Malkovich # 1 (continued)
Post #224 Posted: Tue Jul 06, 2010 2:42 pm 
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Offline Chew Terr
 Post subject: Re: Big Brother Malkovich # 1 (continued)
Post #225 Posted: Tue Jul 06, 2010 3:04 pm 
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc 62A: W 33, B 28
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O . O X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . O X X . . . . . . O X . . . |
$$ | . X X O O X O X . X . O . . W , X . . |
$$ | X X O X . X O O X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O X . . . O . . X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . X . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O X . X . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc Does not seem to work
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O . O X 2 3 . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . O X X . W 1 . . . O X . . . |
$$ | . X X O O X O X . X . O . . . , X . . |
$$ | X X O X . X O O X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O X . . . O . . X . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . X . O . . . . . . . . . . |[/go]

Because we cannot yet attach and attack directly, I see two options. Either we can respond to the kick in the usual way (standing up with an iron pillar) or we can tenuki, forcing black to do further to kill this area. However, I think at the moment that we are better off trying to live on top, to reduce black to a small corner and a weak(ish) group. This is for two reasons: first, if we live up there reasonably, black loses a potential fifth+ line territory. Secondly, my siblings corrected me when I attempted to tenuki to the east, and did not correct my approach in the top. So for both reasons, I shall declare that the top is biggest, and try to defend it. My only concern is that we could weaken our central group, or worst of all, create two weak groups at once. There are ways to try to connect our new group (for example, starting at K19), so I am mostly concerned with the central group. So I will play to strengthen our top group (strengthen your stones when contacted), and keep an eye on the center group, ready to whisk it away if it needs it. The alternative to the iron pillar would be to try to connect under with K19 immediately, but that seems more of a last-minute desperation measure. I would rather live if possible than be forced to connect one or two stones low.

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Offline Joaz Banbeck
 Post subject: Re: Big Brother Malkovich # 1 (continued)
Post #226 Posted: Tue Jul 06, 2010 5:36 pm 
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I approve. Letting black have P16 would be painful.

We are threatening to mess with black's shape and force him low with 'a'. The textbook move to forestall this is 'b', although 'c may work and is more agressive if black is willing to live with the bad aji.
My guess is that Topazg will go with either 'b' or 'c', not finding either one worth two points more than the other. If faced with 'b', Violence will wish for 'c', but probably not find it to be 4 points worth.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O . O X . . C C . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . O X X . . C C . . O X . . . |
$$ | . X X O O X O X . X . O . . W , X . . |
$$ | X X O X . X O O X . . . . . . . a . . |
$$ | . O O X . . . O . . X . . . . c b . . |
$$ | . . O X . . X . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . |[/go]

I like Chew Terr's thinking about trying to connect underneath. Any of the circled points threatens the connection and gives us some eyespace. I'm not sure which is best.

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Offline shapenaji
 Post subject: Re: Big Brother Malkovich # 1 (continued)
Post #227 Posted: Wed Jul 07, 2010 1:52 am 
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No choice here really, to play any lighter negates any future attack we might have on the left

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Offline Gresil
 Post subject: Re: Big Brother Malkovich # 1 (continued)
Post #228 Posted: Wed Jul 07, 2010 8:31 am 
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc 63A: W 33, B 28
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O . O X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . O X X . . . . . . O X . . . |
$$ | . X X O O X O X . X . O . . O , X . . |
$$ | X X O X . X O O X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O X . . . O . . X . . . . B . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . X . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O X . X . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


The only conceivable response.

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Offline topazg
 Post subject: Re: Big Brother Malkovich # 1 (continued)
Post #229 Posted: Wed Jul 07, 2010 8:47 am 
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Offline Violence
 Post subject: Re: Big Brother Malkovich # 1 (continued)
Post #230 Posted: Wed Jul 07, 2010 9:04 am 
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4 points to change it.... errr... ok...

I would've played it a line lower.
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Offline Chew Terr
 Post subject: Re: Big Brother Malkovich # 1 (continued)
Post #231 Posted: Wed Jul 07, 2010 9:50 am 
Gosei
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc 63A: W 33, B 28
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O . O X . . W . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . O X X . . . . . . O X . . . |
$$ | . X X O O X O X . X . O . . O , X . . |
$$ | X X O X . X O O X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O X . . . O . . X . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . X . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O X . X . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Okay, the question is this: does this group need help. I think the answer is yes, so I am playing a move to build a base. I had considered trying to link, as below, but it seems dicey at best. If we did not need to help this group, I would love to play a big point on the bottom or right, or to get some eyespace while pressuring at L12.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc Linking alone seems unsafe
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O . O X W 1 . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . O X X . 2 3 . . . O X . . . |
$$ | . X X O O X O X . X . O . . O , X . . |
$$ | X X O X . X O O X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O X . . . O . . X . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . X . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |[/go]

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Offline Joaz Banbeck
 Post subject: Re: Big Brother Malkovich # 1 (continued)
Post #232 Posted: Wed Jul 07, 2010 11:44 am 
Judan
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I've gotta think about this a bit.

A few moves ago I mentioned the idea of keeping our center group safe ( well, sort of safe ) by keeping their upper center group short on eyes. That is still important. Indeed it may be twice as important now, since we have a new group that does not clearly have eyes. I would like to reduce them to one eye in sente.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc gote for us
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . 5 O 4 . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O . O X 6 3 7 . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . O X X . 2 1 . . . O X . . . |
$$ | . X X O O X O X . X . O . . O , X . . |
$$ | X X O X . X O O X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O X . . . O . . X . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . X . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . |[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc also gote for us
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . 5 O 4 . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O . O X . 6 3 . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . O X X . 2 1 . . . O X . . . |
$$ | . X X O O X O X . X . O . . O , X . . |
$$ | X X O X . X O O X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O X . . . O . . X . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . X . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . |[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc no eyes, bad for them, 2 is premature
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . 3 O 2 . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O . O X . 4 . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . O X X . 5 1 . . . O X . . . |
$$ | . X X O O X O X . X . O . . O , X . . |
$$ | X X O X . X O O X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O X . . . O . . X . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . X . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . |[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc can't do, they have too many ko threats
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . O . 7 . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O . O X 3 4 5 . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . O X X 6 2 1 . . . O X . . . |
$$ | . X X O O X O X . X . O . . O , X . . |
$$ | X X O X . X O O X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O X . . . O . . X . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . X . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . |[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc gote again
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . 9 O 8 . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O . O X 3 4 7 . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . O X X 5 2 1 . . . O X . . . |
$$ | . X X O O X O X 6 X . O . . O , X . . |
$$ | X X O X . X O O X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O X . . . O . . X . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . X . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . |[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc we connect, so they won't play 2
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . O . 3 . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O . O X 5 2 1 . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . O X X . 6 4 7 . . O X . . . |
$$ | . X X O O X O X . X . O . . O , X . . |
$$ | X X O X . X O O X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O X . . . O . . X . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . X . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . |[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc gote for us
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . 3 O 2 . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O . O X . 4 1 7 . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . O X X 5 6 . . . . O X . . . |
$$ | . X X O O X O X . X . O . . O , X . . |
$$ | X X O X . X O O X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O X . . . O . . X . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . X . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . |[/go]


Playing the atari at J19 - which threatens to start a ko for the life of our upper left group - always seems to be their saving move to make us finish in gote. So, if there is a sequence that reduces them to one eye while maintaining sente, it has to start like this:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O . O X 1 . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . O X X . . . . . . O X . . . |
$$ | . X X O O X O X . X . O . . O , X . . |
$$ | X X O X . X O O X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O X . . . O . . X . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . X . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . |[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc we connect
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O . O X 1 . 3 . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . O X X . 2 . . . . O X . . . |
$$ | . X X O O X O X . X . O . . O , X . . |
$$ | X X O X . X O O X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O X . . . O . . X . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . X . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . |[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc zero eyes in gote
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O . O X 1 2 . 5 . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . O X X 3 . . . . . O X . . . |
$$ | . X X O O X O X 4 X . O . . O , X . . |
$$ | X X O X . X O O X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O X . . . O . . X . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . X . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . |[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc zero eyes in gote
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O . O X 1 . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . O X X 3 . 2 5 . . O X . . . |
$$ | . X X O O X O X 4 X . O . . O , X . . |
$$ | X X O X . X O O X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O X . . . O . . X . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . X . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . |[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc zero eyes gote
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O . O X 1 . 4 7 . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . O X X 5 . 2 3 . . O X . . . |
$$ | . X X O O X O X 6 X . O . . O , X . . |
$$ | X X O X . X O O X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O X . . . O . . X . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . X . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . |[/go]


It appears that we can't be sure of finishing with sente. Black will happily trade all of his eye space for the opportunity to connect around us and lock us in like this:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc zero eyes but gote
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O . O X O . X O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . O X X O . X O . . O X . . . |
$$ | . X X O O X O X X X . O . . O , X . . |
$$ | X X O X . X O O X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O X . . . O . . X . B . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . X . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . |[/go]


So first, before going after the upper center black group's eyes, we have to get out. Therefore I'm inclined to reject younger brother's move and extend southward.

Also, to take advantage of any cutting weaknesses of black's most recent keima, we have to be able to attack the piece after we cut it off. This doesn't work if it has an easy connection westward.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O . O X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . O X X . . . . . . O X . . . |
$$ | . X X O O X O X . X . O . . O , X . . |
$$ | X X O X . X O O X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O X . . . O . . X . . . . B . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . X . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$${AR P14 N14}[/go]


Yeah...after looking at that, I conclude that we MUST push out. But I'm not yet sure where. N14 is the current top candidate.

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Offline crux
 Post subject: Re: Big Brother Malkovich # 1 (continued)
Post #233 Posted: Wed Jul 07, 2010 1:47 pm 
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc How about this?
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O . O X . 4 . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . O X X 6 1 2 . . . O X . . . |
$$ | . X X O O X O X . X 3 O . . O , X . . |
$$ | X X O X . X O O X 5 . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O X . . . O . 7 X . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . X . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc Or this?
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O . O X . 4 . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . O X X . 1 2 . . . O X . . . |
$$ | . X X O O X O X 6 X 3 O . . O , X . . |
$$ | X X O X . X O O X 5 . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O X . . . O . 7 X . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . X . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |[/go]
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Offline Magicwand
 Post subject: Re: Big Brother Malkovich # 1 (continued)
Post #234 Posted: Wed Jul 07, 2010 2:04 pm 
Tengen
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crux wrote:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc How about this?
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O . O X . 4 . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . O X X 6 1 2 . . . O X . . . |
$$ | . X X O O X O X . X 3 O . . O , X . . |
$$ | X X O X . X O O X 5 . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O X . . . O . 7 X . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . X . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc Or this?
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O . O X . 4 . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . O X X . 1 2 . . . O X . . . |
$$ | . X X O O X O X 6 X 3 O . . O , X . . |
$$ | X X O X . X O O X 5 . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O X . . . O . 7 X . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . X . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |[/go]


white group in the middle is not strong enough to play this way.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc 63A: W 33, B 28
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O . O X 2 . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . O X X . W 4 . . . O X . . . |
$$ | . X X O O X O X 3 X 1 O . . O , X . . |
$$ | X X O X . X O O X . . 5 . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O X . . . O . . X . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . X . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O X . X . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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Offline Joaz Banbeck
 Post subject: Re: Big Brother Malkovich # 1 (continued)
Post #235 Posted: Fri Jul 09, 2010 8:44 am 
Judan
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I disapprove.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc 63B: W 33, B 30
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O . O X . . C . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . O X X . . . . . . O X . . . |
$$ | . X X O O X O X . X . O . . O , X . . |
$$ | X X O X . X O O X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O X . . . O . . X . W . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . X . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O X . X . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Getting out is worth way more than two points. I would have left younger brother's move in place if he had started with J18, which would be sente, but the top is not only the wrong place to play, but, as mentioned in my previous post, L18 is the wrong move to start there.

When trying to get out, any two-space jump to the 13th rank is too far...

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc Example of two-space jump. Black becomes too strong.
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O . O X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . O X X . . . . . . O X . . . |
$$ | . X X O O X O X . X . O . . O , X . . |
$$ | X X O X . X O O X . . . . . 7 3 4 . . |
$$ | . O O X . . . O . . X . 9 2 5 X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . X . O . . . . 1 6 8 . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . 0 . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O X . X . . , . . . . . , . . . |[/go]


Any move on the 15th rank is to slow, and we still get locked in.

So that leaves four possiblities:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O . O X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . O X X . . . . . . O X . . . |
$$ | . X X O O X O X . X . O . . O , X . . |
$$ | X X O X . X O O X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O X . . . O . . X C C C C X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . X . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O X . X . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |[/go]


Both of the attachments allow black a strong hane.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc ouch
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O . O X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . O X X . . . . . . O X . . . |
$$ | . X X O O X O X . X . O . . O , X . . |
$$ | X X O X . X O O X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O X . . . O . . X . . . 1 X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . X . O . . . . . 2 . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O X . X . . , . . . . . , . . . |[/go]

So it comes down to one of these:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O . O X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . O X X . . . . . . O X . . . |
$$ | . X X O O X O X . X . O . . O , X . . |
$$ | X X O X . X O O X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O X . . . O . . X . C C . X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . X . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O X . X . . , . . . . . , . . . |[/go]


I couldn't figure out which one was better, so finally I chose one at random. I'll let Shapenaji fine tune at the cost of one point.

My gut feel is that N14 is better for the following reason:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O . O X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . O X X . . . . . . O X . . . |
$$ | . X X O O X O X . X . O . . O , X . . |
$$ | X X O X . X O O X . . . . . . . a . . |
$$ | . O O X . . . O . . X . W . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . X . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O X . X . . , . . . . . , . . . |[/go]


We want to be able to play :w1: to undercut black and go for the weak spot at 'a' like this:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O . O X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . O X X . . . . . . O X 6 . . |
$$ | . X X O O X O X . X . O . . O 5 X . . |
$$ | X X O X . X O O X . . . . . . 4 3 . . |
$$ | . O O X . . . O . . X . . . . X 7 . . |
$$ | . . O X . . X . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O X . X . . , . . . . . , . . . |[/go]


But with O14, black gets a dual attack like this:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O . O X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . O X X . . . . . . O X . . . |
$$ | . X X O O X O X . X . O . . O , X . . |
$$ | X X O X . X O O X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O X . . . O . . X . . W . X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . X . O . . . . . B . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . W . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O X . X . . , . . . . . , . . . |[/go]


Being westward by one space minimizes that.

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Offline Chew Terr
 Post subject: Re: Big Brother Malkovich # 1 (continued)
Post #236 Posted: Fri Jul 09, 2010 8:51 am 
Gosei
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Ah, okay. I had considered moving here, but was concerned that it would toothpaste black into attacking our other group. Perhaps it will be fine, and just induce us into getting that group out. I'll try to keep my options open and hopefully I'll pick the same thing as Joaz next time. I guess sealing us into the top would make black pretty strong up there. Maybe that's worth this tradeoff.

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Offline Joaz Banbeck
 Post subject: Re: Big Brother Malkovich # 1 (continued)
Post #237 Posted: Tue Jul 13, 2010 9:26 pm 
Judan
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Shapenaji, it's your turn.

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Offline shapenaji
 Post subject: Re: Big Brother Malkovich # 1 (continued)
Post #238 Posted: Thu Jul 15, 2010 9:42 am 
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Hey guys sorry for the delay, trying to get everything straightened out for a move out west, and the game just slipped my mind. (PS I'll be unavailable from the 25th to the 1st)

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Joaz's other move may be better, but I'm alright with this

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Offline Gresil
 Post subject: Re: Big Brother Malkovich # 1 (continued)
Post #239 Posted: Thu Jul 15, 2010 11:52 am 
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc 65A: W 33, B 30
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O . O X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . O X X . . . . . . O X . . . |
$$ | . X X O O X O X . X . O . . O , X . . |
$$ | X X O X . X O O X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O X . . . O . . X . O . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . X . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . B . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O X . X . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]



The only move.

If this were just me and Terr playing, this would follow:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc 65A: W 33, B 30
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O O . O X . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O . O X X . . . . . . O X . . . |
$$ | . X X O O X O X . X . O . . O , X . . |
$$ | X X O X . X O O X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O X . . . O . . X . O . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . X . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . 1 . 2 . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X X O X . X . . , 3 . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . O O O . . . . 4 . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . 5 . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


But of course the white dans would not have precipitated such a sequence, so white has better moves which we'll see shortly.

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Offline topazg
 Post subject: Re: Big Brother Malkovich # 1 (continued)
Post #240 Posted: Thu Jul 15, 2010 11:54 am 
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Happily approved :)

Cut em up, cut em up good!
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