I was leading with a lot or not?

Post your games here for other members to critique your play.
Post Reply
User avatar
otenki
Lives in gote
Posts: 415
Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2012 9:41 am
Rank: EGF 2k
GD Posts: 0
Universal go server handle: tygempanda
Location: Antwerp, Belgium
Has thanked: 43 times
Been thanked: 32 times

I was leading with a lot or not?

Post by otenki »

Hi guys,



I thought I was winning this game by a lot but in the end I barly won by 2.5 points...
I'm black .
Any ideas what went wrong ?

Cheers,
Otenki
Top
User avatar
ez4u
Oza
Posts: 2414
Joined: Wed Feb 23, 2011 10:15 pm
Rank: Jp 6 dan
GD Posts: 0
KGS: ez4u
Location: Tokyo, Japan
Has thanked: 2351 times
Been thanked: 1332 times

Re: I was leading with a lot or not?

Post by ez4u »

First of all realize that if White had connected at G6 instead of effectively passing at 244, White would have been 2 points better off. If play continued as in the game, but White did not give Black a free point by throwing in at M7 as a ko "threat" in a half point ko (face palm!), White would have won by half a point. So one of the main things that went wrong was Black's assessment of the position. Far from being well ahead, he was probably behind. :)

In general, however, Black failed to make make territory from the stones played. An excellent example was the invasion of Black 47. What did Black want to achieve here? Before the invasion there is a weak White group at the top and a wide White extension along the right. As a result of the invasion, White's weak group at the top links up to a new White wall in the center, making it safe. Meanwhile Black's new wall in the center accomplishes... not much. Black never finds a way to play against White's position in the lower right. It is too strong to kill. So Black's original invasion was suspect. Black's invasion stone and White's lone stone were both weak. In fact though, the White stone had somewhere to run to and in the process helped White a lot. Meanwhile, for all the sound and fury, Black really did not have a use for the invader once White's right side and top stones linked up.

Black has to learn to play more strategically and think more about where the territory is going to finally come from. It is not enough to continuously chase each other around the board. Although attacking is a huge part of Go, in the end it is a game of territory.
Dave Sigaty
"Short-lived are both the praiser and the praised, and rememberer and the remembered..."
- Marcus Aurelius; Meditations, VIII 21
Top
Kirby
Honinbo
Posts: 9553
Joined: Wed Feb 24, 2010 6:04 pm
GD Posts: 0
KGS: Kirby
Tygem: 커비라고해
Has thanked: 1583 times
Been thanked: 1707 times

Re: I was leading with a lot or not?

Post by Kirby »

ez4u wrote:In general, however, Black failed to make make territory from the stones played. An excellent example was the invasion of Black 47. What did Black want to achieve here? Before the invasion there is a weak White group at the top and a wide White extension along the right. As a result of the invasion, White's weak group at the top links up to a new White wall in the center, making it safe. Meanwhile Black's new wall in the center accomplishes... not much.


I mostly agree - white's weak group becomes strong, so that's not ideal.

However, maybe I have a misunderstanding, too. Like you mentioned, Go is a game of territory. While the wall does not accomplish much in gaining territory, it does accomplish something in that it prevents white from making as much territory on the right, doesn't it?

In this example, since white's weak group becomes stronger, maybe it doesn't make sense to invade - if you attack the group, maybe it'll be easier to invade later.

But in general, making territory is one way to achieve superiority in this game of territory, but preventing the opponent is another way, I would think.

Or is this line of thinking too single-purposed?
be immersed
Top
Bill Spight
Honinbo
Posts: 10905
Joined: Wed Apr 21, 2010 1:24 pm
Has thanked: 3651 times
Been thanked: 3373 times

Re: I was leading with a lot or not?

Post by Bill Spight »

I think that you had the lead for much of the game, but you almost frittered it away. Here is a place where you lost a few points.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc White 154
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . O . X O . . O . O X O . . |
$$ | O . O . O O . X . O . . O O X X . X . |
$$ | . O X X X X . . . , X X . . . , . . X |
$$ | X X X . . X . X X X . . O O . . X X O |
$$ | . O X O O . . . O O X X . . . . . O O |
$$ | . X . X . O . . O X O O O . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O X . . . O O O . . . |
$$ | X . . . X O . . . X X O O X O X X . . |
$$ | O X X , X . O O O O X X X X X , . X . |
$$ | O O . X . X X . . . X . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . O O X . X O O O . . X . . . O O . |
$$ | . . O . O X X X X O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . O O . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . O O . . . . . . O . . . . . . O O . |
$$ | . X O O O O . . . , . O . . O O O X . |
$$ | . X X X . X X . X . . O X X . X X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . W a . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


White 154 was the descent, :wc:. To which you replied at "a".

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc Correct reply
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . O . X O . . O . O X O . . |
$$ | O . O . O O . X . O . . O O X X . X . |
$$ | . O X X X X . . . , X X . . . , . . X |
$$ | X X X . . X . X X X . . O O . . X X O |
$$ | . O X O O . . . O O X X . . . . . O O |
$$ | . X . X . O . . O X O O O . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O X . . . O O O . . . |
$$ | X . . . X O . . . X X O O X O X X . . |
$$ | O X X , X . O O O O X X X X X , . X . |
$$ | O O . X . X X . . . X . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . O O X . X O O O . . X . . . O O . |
$$ | . . O . O X X X X O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . O O . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . O O . . . . . . O . . . . . . O O . |
$$ | . X O O O O . . . , . O . . O O O X . |
$$ | . X X X . X X . X . . O X X . X X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . W . 1 . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


:b1: is correct. Now Black has 9 pts. in the corner. You ended up with 5.

Later.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc Moves 165 to 172
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . O . X O . . O . O X O . . |
$$ | O . O . O O . X . O . . O O X X . X . |
$$ | . O X X X X . . . , X X . . . , . . X |
$$ | X X X . . X . X X X . . O O . . X X O |
$$ | . O X O O . . . O O X X . . . . . O O |
$$ | . X . X . O . . O X O O O . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O X . . . O O O . . . |
$$ | X . . . X O . . . X X O O X O X X . . |
$$ | O X X , X . O O O O X X X X X , . X . |
$$ | O O X X . X X . . . X . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . O O X . X O O O . . X . . . O O . |
$$ | . O O . O X X X X O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . O O O X 7 6 8 . O X . . |
$$ | . O O . . . . . . O . 5 4 1 . . O O O |
$$ | . X O O O O . . . , . O 3 2 O O O X O |
$$ | . X X X . X X . X . . O X X O X X X X |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O X . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Black 165 ( :b1: ) is an overplay.
The Adkins Principle:
At some point, doesn't thinking have to go on?
— Winona Adkins

Visualize whirled peas.

Everything with love. Stay safe.
Top
User avatar
ez4u
Oza
Posts: 2414
Joined: Wed Feb 23, 2011 10:15 pm
Rank: Jp 6 dan
GD Posts: 0
KGS: ez4u
Location: Tokyo, Japan
Has thanked: 2351 times
Been thanked: 1332 times

Re: I was leading with a lot or not?

Post by ez4u »

Bill Spight wrote:I think that you had the lead for much of the game, but you almost frittered it away. Here is a place where you lost a few points.

...

Later.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc Moves 165 to 172
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . O . X O . . O . O X O . . |
$$ | O . O . O O . X . O . . O O X X . X . |
$$ | . O X X X X . . . , X X . . . , . . X |
$$ | X X X . . X . X X X . . O O . . X X O |
$$ | . O X O O . . . O O X X . . . . . O O |
$$ | . X . X . O . . O X O O O . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O X . . . O O O . . . |
$$ | X . . . X O . . . X X O O X O X X . . |
$$ | O X X , X . O O O O X X X X X , . X . |
$$ | O O X X . X X . . . X . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . O O X . X O O O . . X . . . O O . |
$$ | . O O . O X X X X O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . O O O X 7 6 8 . O X . . |
$$ | . O O . . . . . . O . 5 4 1 . . O O O |
$$ | . X O O O O . . . , . O 3 2 O O O X O |
$$ | . X X X . X X . X . . O X X O X X X X |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O X . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Black 165 ( :b1: ) is an overplay.


Interesting position! Can White come up with something?
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . O . X O . . O . O X O . . |
$$ | O . O . O O . X . O . . O O X X . X . |
$$ | . O X X X X . . . , X X . . . , . . X |
$$ | X X X . . X . X X X . . O O . . X X O |
$$ | . O X O O . . . O O X X . . . . . O O |
$$ | . X . X . O . . O X O O O . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O X . . . O O O . . . |
$$ | X . . . X O . . . X X O O X O X X . . |
$$ | O X X , X . O O O O X X X X X , . X . |
$$ | O O X X . X X . . . X . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . O O X . X O O O . . X . . . O O . |
$$ | . O O . O X X X X O . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . O O O X 8 6 7 . O X . . |
$$ | . O O . . . . . . O 9 5 4 1 . . O O O |
$$ | . X O O O O . . . , . O 3 2 O O O X O |
$$ | . X X X . X X . X . . O X X O X X X X |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O X . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . O . X O . . O . O X O . . |
$$ | O . O . O O . X . O . . O O X X . X . |
$$ | . O X X X X . . . , X X . . . , . . X |
$$ | X X X . . X . X X X . . O O . . X X O |
$$ | . O X O O . . . O O X X . . . . . O O |
$$ | . X . X . O . . O X O O O . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O X . . . O O O . . . |
$$ | X . . . X O . . . X X O O X O X X . . |
$$ | O X X , X . O O O O X X X X X , . X . |
$$ | O O X X . X X . . . X . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . O O X . X O O O . . X . . . O O . |
$$ | . O O . O X X X X O . 3 . 4 . 6 7 . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . O O O X 5 1 2 0 O X 8 . |
$$ | . O O . . . . . . O . X O X 9 . O O O |
$$ | . X O O O O . . . , . O X O O O O X O |
$$ | . X X X . X X . X . . O X X O X X X X |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O X . X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Dave Sigaty
"Short-lived are both the praiser and the praised, and rememberer and the remembered..."
- Marcus Aurelius; Meditations, VIII 21
Top
Bill Spight
Honinbo
Posts: 10905
Joined: Wed Apr 21, 2010 1:24 pm
Has thanked: 3651 times
Been thanked: 3373 times

Re: I was leading with a lot or not?

Post by Bill Spight »

Very nice, Dave! Thanks. :D
The Adkins Principle:
At some point, doesn't thinking have to go on?
— Winona Adkins

Visualize whirled peas.

Everything with love. Stay safe.
Top
Post Reply

Return to “Game Analysis”