If you get nice slate&shell stones, you should also get a nice kaya board. The stones and the board should be of same "quality" (for lack of better word). Nice stones are kind of wasted on an inferior quality board.

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Kurokigoishiten doesn't have many Kaya boards in stock at the moment. There are two I like, with no damage or irregularity, and the cheapest one costs €530, if I include tax and imports. I'm not willing to pay that much money for a board. I think a Shin Kaya board does well enough with a set of Blossom grade stones. If I should end up getting Yuki stones from somewhere... then I might actually decide to get a Kaya board too. I do have a hard time justifying a €1000+ Go set (excluding shipping, which is another €200 when including tax), though.

Granted, now I have a set that costs like €100, of which €60 was for the glass stones. It's serviceable, but I'd like something better. It doesn't have to be over the top though.

I'm going to send another e-mail using their webform instead of their info-address. If I don't have an answer within 5 working days, I'm going to decide on a purchase somewhere in Europe.

edit: I've sent a new e-mail (without mentioning the previous one) using their web form instead of the info-address. Now I've got at least an auto-reply. It's like 9:50 AM in Japan now, so maybe, just maybe, I'll receive a reply today. (If I do, then they have an info-address there that nobody ever checks )

I think Mr. Kuroki & Co. are more artisans than netizens, and that English is even more a foreign language for them than for those European who don't have English as their native language.

I believe it was somewhere here that I read that it can take two or three weeks for them to reply to a mail enquiry, and that Mr. Kuroki (senior?) had to have mails translated to him.

Also, I have never read about an unhappy customer, and I wouldn't make two or four or eight weeks time difference decide over whether I buy high quality gear which I intend to use for the rest of my life.

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I can understand that a reply will take a few days, but...



... three weeks? That's just impossible in the current day and age. Customers will go elsewhere if the communication speed is that slow. I just hope I have sent my first e-mail to the wrong address. I can't believe that all e-mails and/or phone calls end up at Mr. Kuroki himself. He wouldn't have time to actually run his company.



The main reason to see if I can buy from Kurokigoishiten is that equipment is just very expensive in Europe. One of the sites I'm looking at is this one in Germany. At Kurokigoishiten, one can get better stuff for about the same price, after including shipping and taxes.

I've never bought in Kuroki's but I think you're just approaching this from the wrong direction (in my humble opinion). Kuroki is a craftsman, an artisan, not a bussines-man who runs a company to make profit; at least that's the image I have from him after reading several threads in this forum. In top of that, he's old and live in Japan; we're just lucky that he sells worldwide! If you want a more modern, internet, western culture approach, you should go with GGG or something along those lines (but be aware that currently they're swamped with orders and emails). I hope you don't get this with the wrong foot, I honestly just want to point this out without getting in an argument.

PS: I envy you so much, someday I'll have the money to buy a nice set

That may be true for Abebooks, Amazon, eBay and any large online merchant …

Well, I rather believe customers walk in and out of Mr. Kuroki’s store all day. His Web store seems to be an extra for customers who cannot visit the store IRL.

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“The only difference between me and a madman is that I’m not mad.” — Salvador Dali ★ Play a slooooow correspondence game with me on OGS?

That is indeed the image he projects on his website; 3-4 people in their seventies ('started his career when he was 20, and he has now more than 50 years of experience') who manufacture all the equipment and do all the rest themselves as well. That is just something I can't believe if you try to sell worldwide



You'll get no argument from me. You may even be right, and Kurokigoishiten -is- a very small manufacturer and very slow in communicating. It could be. I'll see what happens (or doesn't) next week.



I don't know what your age and situation is, but I thought like that often enough when I was a student and early in my working life. Now, at my age and working full-time for more than a decade, this has obviously changed.

I must say though, that I live very cheaply. I only have the minimum number of subscriptions I can get away with, no car, don't drink, don't smoke, it takes me 8 years to upgrade a computer, and a smartphone will only be replaced if it can't run the 'Make Call' app any longer... in short, I don't spend money unnecessarily, so I can spend a large sum if I really want something.

I'm sure that at some point, you'll be able to save up for your set.

Does anyone know if stones from Giant Clam that have already been fashioned are specially protected, the way tortoiseshell and ivory are? Should I be worried about bringing a set from Japan into the US?

... pretty cool stones, they are.

I don't think it is protected in any kind. Customs and authorities will not make a problem. Stones are regularly sold and shipped, also internationally.
But.
You may want to consider if you want to buy goods made from vulnerable sources.

Well, they weren't vulnerable when the item was made, which is my point.

Here is the status of this particular type of shell - which isn't necessarily the same as other Mexican or Japanese varieties of shell:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Giant_clam

Thank you Life. That's a good read.
But I don't think shell stones are made from this species. But perhaps the same applies.

Here is a reference at Sensei's as well, stating the same concern:

http://senseis.xmp.net/?Goishi

While I was researching, I found this store:

http://www5b.biglobe.ne.jp/~goban/engli ... rsion.html

They only have a page up there, and require an order to be placed by e-mail.

I've only found one reference to this shop in this forum. Anybody know it and/or has experience with it?

If I should decide to get shell and slate stones, I could get Moon grade stones there, for the same price as I'd pay for Jitsuyo grade in Europe, even when including taxes, and assume that shipping is comparable to other stores sending with EMS, such as Mr. Kuroki. When getting Sakura or Zelkova bowls there, the price will be at least €100 LESS than European prices, even including shipping and taxes.

I've almost decided everything.

Board: Shin Kaya +/- 6cm, Alaska Cedar, bought in Europe. (I have actually already ordered it, and it has shipped. Even a cheaper 3cm Kaya board at the above store is out of the question; the size and weight raises the shipping price into the €160+ region, and I've decided that I'm not willing to pay that much.)

Bowls: Dark ash wood, or reddish cherrywood

Stones: Japanese glass stones from Europe, Jitsuyo stones from Europe, or Moon stones from the above site if the e-mail reaction is prompt and I decide to take a gamble.

If I get glass stones to go with the shin kaya board, I'll keep the ash bowls for them. If I get shell and slate stones, I'll order cherry bowls along with them, and the ash bowls will replace the plastic containers in my current cheap set. That set has a 1.5cm beech board, which would be out of place with the ash bowls. Maybe I'll replace that board with a 2-3cm shin kaya board at some point.

PS: The e-mail address of the above store is caro-kann@kzf.biglobe.ne.jp. I don't know why, but I find it particularly funny that a store, which is a Go shop first, a Shogi shop second, has an e-mail address named after a western chess opening

PS2: Tomorrow, it's three weeks after I sent the first e-mail to Mr. Kuroki using their direct address, and almost 2 weeks after I sent the second using their web form. I have not received a reaction on either. The chance of him getting an order for a set of stones is becoming quite slim.

Yes, there are already a few threads about that shop, in fact I will be dropping by today and picking something up for a friend. The owner is second generation of a family business and sources items from all over Japan, including (my suspicion) from KGT itself. I have never ordered via mail, but in person several times. I also have some equipment from over 30 years prior, before Yoshiaki-san took over the family business.

I don't know if it will work, but they also have a Facebook account. You might try contacting them through that.
https://www.facebook.com/kurokigoishiten/timeline

Thanks. It's good to know the store already exists for such a long time. I've sent an e-mail to them, asking what the chipment costs for a set of stones and bowls would be.




I've just received an answer from Kurokigoishiten after exactly three weeks.

It is a bit puzzling. What I asked was: "If I buy set X, can I replace the chestnut bowls with cherry bowls, and keep the set discount?" (This would actually raise the price of the set by about 6000 yen, because the cherry bowls are more expensive.)

The answer is:
"In your situation, we we will make a set. Normally we do not give discounts on sets, but in your case, we will make an exception."

Well... that's confusing. Maybe they mean that they don't provide discounts for self-built sets; however, the cherry bowls do have a discount, but in a different set.

The point is almost moot now anyway. I've already ordered the board in Europe because of the prohibitive shipment/import/tax costs (in The Netherlands, one pays import duties and taxes *on top of the shipment costs*, as they are considered part of the value of the product), so I can't build a set anymore.

The Aoyama shop I mentioned above is also much less expensive than Mr. Kuroki with regard to stones.

Kuroki Blossom grade 32 compared to Aoyama Moon grade 32, which for both companies is the middle grade, is 50.000 yen to 33.000 yen. After including import and taxes, the price difference is €175. while I don't need to make a decision based on a few euro's of price difference, this is a considerable amount.

I'll await the mail from the Aoyama shop. Hopefully it won't take three weeks

I'm coming in a little late to this thread, but thought I'd add a little comment.

I believe what they're saying is that

1. They normally don't give discounts in mix and match sets.
2. They'll let you have the cherry bowls in lieu of the chestnut (in the set you wanted) for the same price.

In other words, "yes" to your inquiry.

I suspect Aoyama's stones are primarily from Mr. Kuroki and are of an older stock which is why the price hasn't risen. There's only two or three manufactures left in Japan, and from what I understand they're all in Hyuga City. I've spoken with a few people who've ordered from them and they've been quite happy with their purchases.

I am not sure that they are actually from Kuroki. I have a set of Tsuki stones I bought from another vendor and I doubt that they came from him. They are nice stones, though, and I am quite happy with them. I don't know if I could tell the difference between the quality of manufacturing the Kuroki stones and the ones I bought. I am sure they are from a different manufacturer though. The quality control and attention to individual stone detail from Kuroki is most likely unmatched by any other vendor. They finish every stone by hand, which I doubt the other manufacturers do. They also inspect all stones by computers and by hand. Most likely other manufacturers only inspect by computers. The bottom line is that if you buy blossom grade from Kuroki, you won't find a flawed stone, or at least the chances are very low. If you buy another set of stones, you might find a few flawed stones, since quality control and manufacturing process is not nearly as good.

The older logo that KGT used is visible on the sets in the above shop in the backstock behind the counter.

OK... if they'd just swap the bowls, chestnut for cherry, the discount would be like 6.000 yen instead of about 3.000. Pity that Mr. Kuroki or, in my case, Mrs (I think) Ryoko Kuroki, took so long to answer. A few days ago, I've ordered a three piece board made of Alaskan spruce (or cedar; some stores say spruce, other say cedar, and prices are about the same here in Europe). The only shop I've seen making a distinct difference is Aoyama above, where the cedar boards are a bit more expensive. I chose a three piece because of price and against warping.

Unfortunately, ordering a 6 cm Kaya board at (55.000 + 17.000 shipping + 3500 import tax) x 1.21 VAT = 91.355 yen or 767 euro is prohibitive / not worth it to me. (And yes, the shipping, and import tax, both have VAT tax added to it!)

Buying an Alaskan Spruce or Cedar board in Japan for around 25.000 yen (€210) would be quite silly, as I can get such a board in Europe for a similar price without the huge shipping, import tax and VAT.



I hope Aoyama doesn't take too long to react. If the shipment costs are comparable to Mr. Kuroki's, I think I'll be ordering a set of stones and bowls there. Without adding shipment and tax, the final set would be:

€100 for the bowls
€189 for the board
€277 for the stones

That's €277 for stones, and €289 for wood. I think that's quite a balanced set. I feel the bowls, table board and stones all sit around the middle of the available quality range (without counting the over the top extremely expensive gear).