What do I have to do just to get to 5k?

skydyr · **#381**

Just as a general attitude thing, you shouldn't be thinking about eyes at all unless your group is surrounded. Being able to make a group live in a life and death situation is good, but it's inferior to not being in that situation in the first place.

Second, both sides have to live at some point, not just you. Before you start worrying about living, make sure that it's you who needs to worry, and not your opponent instead. This has come up before, and it's really all about the way you approach the game, rather than specific moves.

Out of curiosity, do you play handicap games, and specifically high handicap games much? As black, that is.

bayu · **#382**

Somebody told you to look into the 3-3 invasion of a hoshi with large knight shimari.. Sure enough it occurs again during the next game

This time you got invaded. Knowing the sequence helps in both instances. Especially when your opponent doesn't. :twisted:

you deviate (not a game over mistake, but you give away points and allow white follow up moves without compensation)
:w26:

he deviates also. I don't like that move. These moves are rarely correct.
:b27:

Your comment is no, no and no. The move is correct. Trust in it. P17 would be haunting you way more.
:b29:

Your opponent can potentially cut you (doesn't work now. Partly due to :b27:

). Your game move :b29:

drives your opponent into a direction so that the cut becomes possible and serious. Only do that if you have time and are willing to defend it before he can cut. Check out what your opponent did in the bottom left after you won the ko in the game you posted before. He was scared of the cut. Here, a move like N14 can cover the cut and attack the white group at the same time (2kyu advice, might not be Dan-repertoire).

Bill Spight · **#383**

Fedya wrote:

Bill Spight wrote:

Thickness, reduction, other concepts that you have difficulty with! Maybe you should forget about concepts and just fight like hell.

Granted, I didn't quite fight like hell, but in this game, it seems like every time I tried to play a move that wasn't passive, the result was that I got smacked down hard, immediately. This happens to me all too often when I play moves that aren't passive. :mad:

It also has thickness that doesn't work, and a pincer attack that goes wrong. Where have we seen those things before?

In fact, you lost this game because of pessimism. For one thing, you resigned instead of soldiering on. Courage, mon vieux.

Yes, you screwed up the attack, but the result was close to a wash. You could have taken the lead. Instead, White kept the advantage, the advantage that he had gained from your earlier pessimistic play.

Quote:

After the game, I was worried that I had screwed up on :b49:

and cost myself a chance to win. That's because I was thinking White would passively play S16 in response to S14. If White simply descends to T15, Black is toast.

You misread that position. Eye vs. no eye is your friend.

See comments for more.

Fedya · **#384**

A lot to respond to.

dfan wrote:

Fedya wrote:

OK, where are my stones going to get eyes?

How about the whole center of the board?

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$c $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . B . O . O . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . O . O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

I did jump out on :b29:

, and look what that got me.

The bigger issue is that when people say to run out to the center, or to get one eye on the side and one in the center, all I see is a big floating group in the center. It's the same as with something like the E12 stone in this game, which I played as an attempt at a reducing move.

Fedya · **#385**

Lightvector:

I didn't see Q12 at :b37:

at all.

Skydyr:

Quote:

Out of curiosity, do you play handicap games, and specifically high handicap games much? As black, that is.

No, I don't.

Bayu:

I played :b23:

at R14 because I was worried about getting split if White played the atari at Q15. Once I played R14, I realized I could capture Q15 with a net. Until I couldn't because White had already played Q18....

dfan · **#386**

I think one of my 2017 resolutions is to stay out of this thread.

Good luck, and I hope others can help you more effectively than I have.

Bill Spight · **#387**

Fedya, I see that you are online, so I won't wait to post this.

Bravo for this game. I think that you took yourself a bit out of your comfort zone. You lost the game, but so what? Also, you did a good bit of study of this game on your own.

Keep that up and you may make 5 kyu by this summer.

bayu · **#388**

Fedya wrote:

Once I played R14, I realized I could capture Q15 with a net. Until I couldn't because White had already played Q18....

You still can. Try it out on a board and post the solution. It's pretty. Only after white played N14, the net is gone (well there are still some tricks that other people pointed out).

Fedya wrote:

I did jump out on :b29:

, and look what that got me.

It got you praise by Bill :bow:

. Look at the black floating group and then at the white floating group. Which do you prefer and by how much? If you could swap colours, what would be your strategy with that weak white group? Resign? It's all relative. As long as the opponent group looks even more stupid than your group, fortuna sits on your shoulder and rewards the brave. :rambo:

Sidenote concerning vocabulary: I wouldn't call :b29:

a jumping out move, but a capping attack. It doesn't help your group directly, as white could squeeze through between your group and :b29:

. A jumping out move won't leave such a gap. A jumping out move aims at getting one of your groups out. A capping attack aims at making the opponent group look stupid.

Fedya · **#389**

dfan wrote:

I think one of my 2017 resolutions is to stay out of this thread.

Good luck, and I hope others can help you more effectively than I have.

I guess one my resolutions will have to be not to get so easily frustrated. You're not the first person I've driven away.

Fedya · **#390**

Quote:

You still can. Try it out on a board and post the solution. It's pretty. Only after white played N14, the net is gone (well there are still some tricks that other people pointed out).

Wait a second. You're saying that if White had played :w32:

at Q15 instead of N14, I still could have captured it?

I saw:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$c $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X O . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . 4 X O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 O X O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X O . 3 . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X . O . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . O . O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

White escapes because the stones at Q16/Q17 are in atari.

Wait!

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$c $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X O . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X . O . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . O . O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

This looks stronger. (Perhaps you meant that the net is only gone after White played N16?)

Bill Spight · **#391**

Keep going.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$c $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X 5 X O . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . 4 X O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . a 8 1 O X O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 7 6 2 X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X O . 3 9 X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X . O . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . O . O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

fills.

at "a".

bayu · **#392**

I still think the net is pretty.

Definitively more fun if it happens to somebody else.

Via eidogo I was looking at some pro games with that 3-3 invasion of hoshi cum ogeima.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$c $$ --------------------------------------- $$ . . . . . . . . . . | $$ . . . . . X O O . . | $$ . . . . X . X O . . | $$ , . . . . . X O O . | $$ . . . . . a O X O . | $$ . . . . . b . X X . | $$ . . . . . . . X . . | $$ . . . . . . . . . . |[/go]

The loose ladder move b appears as well, but a lot rarer than the netting move a. Is there a good argument to decide which move is better in which situation?

dfan wrote:

I think one of my 2017 resolutions is to stay out of this thread.

dfan, your 2017 resolution should be: more patience!

Fedya · **#393**

OK, so Kageyama has a chapter in Lessons in the Fundamentals about how neither player in a position like this really has much territory:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wc Certainly not all Black territory! $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . O . . . O O X . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . O O X . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . T . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . T . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . T . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . T . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . T . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . T . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . T . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . T . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . T . . . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . T . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , T T T T T X . . . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . X . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

But where is White supposed to play to prevent Black from turning all that into territory? I was faced with this decision in a game today, and I looked and looked and apparently reached the wrong conclusion because things quickly spiraled out of control.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wc It's not all Black territory, but I'll be darned if I can see how to stop Black. $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . O . . . O O X . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . O O X . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . a . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , b . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . X . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

In the game, I tried the invasion at a, and when that didn't work I tried a reducing move at b, which didn't work either. I wound up with one dead group after another after another, and even made things worse by playing another move in the top right. I'm guessing I made a strategic mistake earlier when I played D2 instead of the 3-3 invasion, because playing there really would have reduced Black as it turned out. I just thought it was much too early, and I didn't want to end up with a weak group on the left side after Black slid into the corner or played something around C8. But those two are miai, so perhaps I needed to let Black choose which one to get and play the 3-3 invasion first.

Shaddy · **#394**

Both of those moves should be fine. It's probably the followup that you've got wrong.

Bill Spight · **#395**

Fedya wrote:

OK, so Kageyama has a chapter in Lessons in the Fundamentals about how neither player in a position like this really has much territory:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wc Certainly not all Black territory! $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . O . . . O O X . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . O O X . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . T . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . T . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . T . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . T . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . T . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . T . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . T . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . T . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . T . . . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . T . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , T T T T T X . . . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . X . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

But where is White supposed to play to prevent Black from turning all that into territory? I was faced with this decision in a game today, and I looked and looked and apparently reached the wrong conclusion because things quickly spiraled out of control.

Well, if there is a single best play for White, I don't know what it is. Sorry.

Quote:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wc It's not all Black territory, but I'll be darned if I can see how to stop Black. $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . O . . . O O X . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . O O X . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . a . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , b . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . X . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

In the game, I tried the invasion at a, and when that didn't work I tried a reducing move at b, which didn't work either. I wound up with one dead group after another after another, and even made things worse by playing another move in the top right.

As I have said before, if that is the case then your opponent has better basics than you do. Study the basics!

Quote:

I'm guessing I made a strategic mistake earlier when I played D2 instead of the 3-3 invasion, because playing there really would have reduced Black as it turned out. I just thought it was much too early, and I didn't want to end up with a weak group on the left side after Black slid into the corner or played something around C8. But those two are miai, so perhaps I needed to let Black choose which one to get and play the 3-3 invasion first.

Is this the position where you played D-02?

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wc Earlier position? $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . O . . . O O X . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . O O X . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . a . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , b . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . X . . . . . . c . . | $$ | . . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Yes, that may not be best. But "c" may not be best, either. I might play "a", but "b" looks good, too. and there are other possibilities, as well.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wc It's not all Black territory, but I'll be darned if I can see how to stop Black. $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . O . . . O O X . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . O O X . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . a . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , b . . . . B . . . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . X . . . . . . B . . | $$ | . . . W . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

In this position the shoulder blow at "b" follows the proverb about reduction, but because :wc:

has left Black with an open skirt, the bottom side may not be so urgent. The problem with "a" is that it feels a bit too close to the the solid Black corner (:bc:) for comfort. Still, it is playable, I think. But you did not handle it well. Perhaps you would have found the reduction, :w1:

, easier to handle.

Fedya · **#396**

I actually played D2 before the sequence in the top right. (Actually, I approached in the top right and Black tenukied in the lower left.)

I'll have to go over the game again to see if I can find a mistake after :w22:

or after I played L4. I wouldn't be surprised if L4 was a mistake just because once Black had a few more stones in the lower right in response to :w22:

it might be less of a reduction and more of an invasion.

I was just hoping not to have to post the whole game, since I'm almost embarrassed by how badly things went wrong so quickly. :oops:

That and I actually had another game that I've really been going over that seems more interesting -- I didn't feel like I was playing badly, but before I missed a move that could save a group I was behind by a good 20 points anyway. I've come back to that game a couple of times and had some new insights on it each time, and was going to post that, before I played this clunker of a game. :mad:

Bill Spight · **#397**

Post whatever you want to, Fedya. It is good that you are putting in the work to review your own games.

The main takeaway from my response, I think, is that there are good reductions on the 5th line and higher. Not that you shouldn't improve your invasion skills, but reductions may be a relatively easy way to up your win rate.

Fedya · **#398**

So I took some time to think about the most recent position I posted, and go over it again to try to find my mistakes. The game continued as follows

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm22 Continuation $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . O . . . O O X . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . O O X . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 6 . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 7 . 5 2 . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . 0 . 8 . . 3 . . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . 4 . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , 9 . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . X . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

A couple of moves I think may be mistakes:

:w26:

I'm thinking now I probably should have slid to S4, as it's not as if I'm behind in the running battle if Black plays where I played :w26:

is also a mistake, I think. I believe it should have been the cap at K4 instead of the shoulder hit. The thing is, I look at a move like K5, and even more than with the shoulder hit see a stone that's floating and is going to get eyes who only knows where. That, and it looks like it does less to keep Black from getting a whole bunch of territory in the bottom right.

Not that White's shape on the right looks much better to me.

Shaddy · **#399**

Grading the moves in that diagram out of 10:

24: -2
26: 10 (proposed 26: 2)
28: 8
30: 0

Fedya · **#400**

So I think you're saying I should have played something like this instead:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm22 Continuation $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . O . . . O O X . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . O O X . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 6 . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 3 4 . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . 8 . . 5 . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . 7 . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . X . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

That doesn't look much bigger to me, and Black is still building a formidable moyo on the bottom.

What do I have to do just to get to 5k?

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