It is currently Wed May 14, 2025 1:46 am

All times are UTC - 8 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 44 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next
Author Message
Offline
 Post subject: Re: 62. Kie (1d) vs. FlamingMetroidzd (2k)
Post #21 Posted: Sun Jul 18, 2010 1:46 pm 
Dies with sente
User avatar

Posts: 109
Location: Arizona, United States
Liked others: 0
Was liked: 3
Rank: 2k Kaya
IGS: Exologist
Kaya handle: Exologist
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoners: W=0, B=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , O . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . B . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . X . O . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


The expected result. Ok, fighting hasn't really started, but I'm leaving potential. Will my stone get eaten the next move? Perhaps, but I'll get my uses out of it later.

_________________
TucsonGo.org - Play Go in Tucson
We meet twice a week, visit us!

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: 62. Kie (1d) vs. FlamingMetroidzd (2k)
Post #22 Posted: Mon Jul 19, 2010 12:55 am 
Lives with ko
User avatar

Posts: 147
Liked others: 0
Was liked: 4
Rank: EGF 1d
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoners: W=0, B=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , O . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . X . O . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . W . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]



I don't want black to be able to protect the corner in almost sente, so I'll move in.

This would be pretty good since the center is useless due to (a).

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 Prisoners: W=0, B=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , O . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . X a . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . 6 . 4 . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . 5 . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . 2 3 . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . 7 . . O . X . O . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]




Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 Prisoners: W=0, B=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , O . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . 3 , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . 2 . . O . X . O . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


This looks alright, the profit is quite good.

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: 62. Kie (1d) vs. FlamingMetroidzd (2k)
Post #23 Posted: Tue Jul 20, 2010 4:25 am 
Dies with sente
User avatar

Posts: 109
Location: Arizona, United States
Liked others: 0
Was liked: 3
Rank: 2k Kaya
IGS: Exologist
Kaya handle: Exologist
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoners: W=0, B=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , O . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . B . . O . X . O . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Looking back H3 was probably a bad move... Oh well. If w C8, I'll attach to the top, which looks favorable for me from what I can have read. I think w could start a ko for life, but even if ko is somehow won, letting me have such a wall to attack with wouldn't be a good idea. Some examples (ko variation comes about by play along the sides instead of crosscuts in which variations were too numerous to put here):

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoners: W=0, B=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , O . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . 7 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 5 W 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 3 2 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 6 X . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . 9 8 . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . O . X . O . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoners: W=0, B=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , O . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . 3 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . W 1 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 6 4 7 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . O . X . O . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoners: W=0, B=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , O . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . 3 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . W 1 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 7 4 6 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . B . . O . X . O . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

_________________
TucsonGo.org - Play Go in Tucson
We meet twice a week, visit us!

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: 62. Kie (1d) vs. FlamingMetroidzd (2k)
Post #24 Posted: Tue Jul 20, 2010 5:09 am 
Lives with ko
User avatar

Posts: 147
Liked others: 0
Was liked: 4
Rank: EGF 1d
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoners: W=0, B=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , O . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . W , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . O . X . O . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: 62. Kie (1d) vs. FlamingMetroidzd (2k)
Post #25 Posted: Wed Jul 21, 2010 3:33 pm 
Dies with sente
User avatar

Posts: 109
Location: Arizona, United States
Liked others: 0
Was liked: 3
Rank: 2k Kaya
IGS: Exologist
Kaya handle: Exologist
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoners: W=0, B=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . B . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , O . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . O , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . O . X . O . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Going to take a corner. This one seems more senteish than the bottom right.

_________________
TucsonGo.org - Play Go in Tucson
We meet twice a week, visit us!

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: 62. Kie (1d) vs. FlamingMetroidzd (2k)
Post #26 Posted: Wed Jul 21, 2010 3:53 pm 
Lives with ko
User avatar

Posts: 147
Liked others: 0
Was liked: 4
Rank: EGF 1d
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 Prisoners: W=0, B=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , O . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . X 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . O , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . O . X . O . . . O . . 3 . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


He is going all-out turtle now, hopefully he has normal 2 kyu endgame skills, otherwise this could be problematic.

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: 62. Kie (1d) vs. FlamingMetroidzd (2k)
Post #27 Posted: Fri Jul 23, 2010 4:37 pm 
Dies with sente
User avatar

Posts: 109
Location: Arizona, United States
Liked others: 0
Was liked: 3
Rank: 2k Kaya
IGS: Exologist
Kaya handle: Exologist
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoners: W=0, B=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , O . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . O , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . O . X . O . . . O . B O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Prospects for the bottom have becomes somewhat lacking (at least for now; I can still reduce, invade later at M3, or use H3 aji if need be... see b). So after this joseki, I will take sente to the top.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoners: W=0, B=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . Q . a a a . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , O . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X Q . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . Q . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . X Q . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . b . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . b . O , . b . b . X 3 . . |
$$ | . . X . . O . X . O . b . O . 1 O 5 . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . 2 6 4 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I'm still deciding on which of the moves at a I should play. Notice how the triangle stones would no longer have a base, so it wouldn't necessarily be bad for me to run out to the center, as I could then turn around and attack that group. So should I play G17, H17, or J17? (K17 is out of the question because it is a contact play--shoulder hit--and would only force my opponent to become stronger) G17 seems a bit close to w's wall allowing w to gain more territory to the right while J17 would be hard to respond to a K17 contact play, so I'm leaning towards the middle of them. Although playing G17 would indeed remove the most base of the triangle group possible.

In any case, I'll be happy whether white has me live and take the top or run and split things up.

_________________
TucsonGo.org - Play Go in Tucson
We meet twice a week, visit us!

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: 62. Kie (1d) vs. FlamingMetroidzd (2k)
Post #28 Posted: Sat Jul 24, 2010 9:14 am 
Lives with ko
User avatar

Posts: 147
Liked others: 0
Was liked: 4
Rank: EGF 1d
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoners: W=0, B=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , O . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . O , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . O . X . O . . . O . X O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . W . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I'm completely out of it today, sleep deprivation and so forth.

I have two invasions left or doing something on the top. I may be hard to come up with enough points if I can't get much at the top so if he invades then I have to read out a winning strategy.


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoners: W=0, B=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . c , O . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . c . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . a . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . b . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . O , . . . . . X 1 . . |
$$ | . . X . . O . X . O . . . O . X O 3 . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . O 4 2 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: 62. Kie (1d) vs. FlamingMetroidzd (2k)
Post #29 Posted: Sun Jul 25, 2010 4:08 am 
Dies with sente
User avatar

Posts: 109
Location: Arizona, United States
Liked others: 0
Was liked: 3
Rank: 2k Kaya
IGS: Exologist
Kaya handle: Exologist
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoners: W=0, B=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , O . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . O , . . . . . X B . . |
$$ | . . X . . O . X . O . . . O . X O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

_________________
TucsonGo.org - Play Go in Tucson
We meet twice a week, visit us!

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: 62. Kie (1d) vs. FlamingMetroidzd (2k)
Post #30 Posted: Sun Jul 25, 2010 4:37 am 
Lives with ko
User avatar

Posts: 147
Liked others: 0
Was liked: 4
Rank: EGF 1d
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 Prisoners: W=0, B=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , O . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . O , . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . X . . O . X . O . . . O . X O 2 . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . O 3 1 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: 62. Kie (1d) vs. FlamingMetroidzd (2k)
Post #31 Posted: Mon Jul 26, 2010 10:02 am 
Dies with sente
User avatar

Posts: 109
Location: Arizona, United States
Liked others: 0
Was liked: 3
Rank: 2k Kaya
IGS: Exologist
Kaya handle: Exologist
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 Prisoners: W=0, B=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . B . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , O . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . O , . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . X . . O . X . O . . . O . X O X . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . O O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Alright, forget the last plan. I'm going to take advantage the large knight up here now while I still can. Perhaps I'll put in a move around the other area later depending on the response to this. W was probably just waiting for move I was about to play to attack me and make a very secure group on the top--I don't want a repeat of the bottom. Also notice how it looks similar to this:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 Prisoners: W=0, B=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . X . X X X . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . O O O X . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . O . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . O , . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . X . . O . X . O . . . O . X O X . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . O O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Now--going out on a limb--w probably wouldn't be happy with a result like this :P (thus it'll end up different), but I'm showing you how the position looks looks similar to one of the standard pincer joseki. The only difference locally is my stone on the 2nd line to the right. Honestly, I'm not sure what w will do with a move like this. Surely the above scenario would be quite disheartening, but letting me eat O17 and make tons of territory, or worse, letting me ruin a lot of potential on the top in sente would not be good at all.

_________________
TucsonGo.org - Play Go in Tucson
We meet twice a week, visit us!

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: 62. Kie (1d) vs. FlamingMetroidzd (2k)
Post #32 Posted: Mon Jul 26, 2010 10:42 am 
Lives in sente
User avatar

Posts: 921
Liked others: 401
Was liked: 164
Rank: German 2 dan
I think that there were three or four moves to consider, the deciding factor being how deep one needs to go because of the score:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 Prisoners: W=0, B=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . a . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . b , O . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . c . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . d . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . O , . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . X . . O . X . O . . . O . X O X . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . O O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


The move Black played can simply be answered like this:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . 1 B . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , O . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . O , . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . X . . O . X . O . . . O . X O X . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . O O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I think that the increase of White's thickness on the top side is bigger than the loss of potential territory through the invasion.

_________________
A good system naturally covers all corner cases without further effort.

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: 62. Kie (1d) vs. FlamingMetroidzd (2k)
Post #33 Posted: Tue Jul 27, 2010 1:48 am 
Lives with ko
User avatar

Posts: 147
Liked others: 0
Was liked: 4
Rank: EGF 1d
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 Prisoners: W=0, B=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . W X . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , O . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . O , . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . X . . O . X . O . . . O . X O X . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . O O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Not my first choice for invasion, but it is ultra-safe like all other black moves so far. The main draw-back is that black hasn't got to use his influence stones very well so far. White has points and good positions on the board and feels almost no pressure at all. So, white being behind in territory I can still play the endgame and make invasions from solid positions, so I should have decent chances to catch up.

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: 62. Kie (1d) vs. FlamingMetroidzd (2k)
Post #34 Posted: Mon Aug 02, 2010 5:44 pm 
Dies with sente
User avatar

Posts: 109
Location: Arizona, United States
Liked others: 0
Was liked: 3
Rank: 2k Kaya
IGS: Exologist
Kaya handle: Exologist
Sorry I have not posted!

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 Prisoners: W=0, B=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . B . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . O X . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , O . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . O , . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . X . . O . X . O . . . O . X O X . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . O O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Typical response by me. I believe it would be quite beneficial to slip under, so w probably won't let it happen.

_________________
TucsonGo.org - Play Go in Tucson
We meet twice a week, visit us!

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: 62. Kie (1d) vs. FlamingMetroidzd (2k)
Post #35 Posted: Mon Aug 02, 2010 6:53 pm 
Gosei
User avatar

Posts: 2060
Location: Texas
Liked others: 546
Was liked: 173
Rank: KGS 3k
GD Posts: 264
KGS: Chew
observers:
I could be mistaken, as FM is a fair amount stronger than me, but I'm not big on this last move. It seems fairly aji-keshi, as it's kind of helping white to build the moyo he most wants? Can anyone set me straight on this?

_________________
Someday I want to be strong enough to earn KGS[-].

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: 62. Kie (1d) vs. FlamingMetroidzd (2k)
Post #36 Posted: Mon Aug 02, 2010 11:14 pm 
Lives with ko
User avatar

Posts: 147
Liked others: 0
Was liked: 4
Rank: EGF 1d
No problem, I just moved into a new apartment so no loss in time.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 Prisoners: W=0, B=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . W X . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . O X . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , O . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . O , . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . X . . O . X . O . . . O . X O X . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . O O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: 62. Kie (1d) vs. FlamingMetroidzd (2k)
Post #37 Posted: Tue Aug 03, 2010 6:00 am 
Lives with ko

Posts: 257
Location: Singapore
Liked others: 13
Was liked: 30
Rank: Dan player
Chew Terr wrote:
observers:
I could be mistaken, as FM is a fair amount stronger than me, but I'm not big on this last move. It seems fairly aji-keshi, as it's kind of helping white to build the moyo he most wants? Can anyone set me straight on this?


I am no fan of invading at M17. Basically what Harlequin said.

_________________
My homepages: http://senseis.xmp.net/?Unkx80 and http://yeefan.sg/.

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: 62. Kie (1d) vs. FlamingMetroidzd (2k)
Post #38 Posted: Tue Aug 03, 2010 7:51 am 
Gosei
User avatar

Posts: 2060
Location: Texas
Liked others: 546
Was liked: 173
Rank: KGS 3k
GD Posts: 264
KGS: Chew
unkx80 wrote:
Chew Terr wrote:
observers:
I could be mistaken, as FM is a fair amount stronger than me, but I'm not big on this last move. It seems fairly aji-keshi, as it's kind of helping white to build the moyo he most wants? Can anyone set me straight on this?


I am no fan of invading at M17. Basically what Harlequin said.


Sorry, I meant the followup. I understood why Harlequin said that the invasion was bad, but I wasn't big on the followup, either. Or is this just black's best local option?

_________________
Someday I want to be strong enough to earn KGS[-].

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: 62. Kie (1d) vs. FlamingMetroidzd (2k)
Post #39 Posted: Thu Aug 05, 2010 1:24 am 
Dies with sente
User avatar

Posts: 109
Location: Arizona, United States
Liked others: 0
Was liked: 3
Rank: 2k Kaya
IGS: Exologist
Kaya handle: Exologist
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 Prisoners: W=0, B=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O X . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . O X . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , O B . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . O , . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . X . . O . X . O . . . O . X O X . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . O O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Swallowing O17. Barring some sort of exchange, W will get a nice wall, but the potential territory is open towards the center, so can be reduced. Also, he'll have invested too many stones in it so must answer D18 and D16 moves, which secure the corner for me.

_________________
TucsonGo.org - Play Go in Tucson
We meet twice a week, visit us!

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: 62. Kie (1d) vs. FlamingMetroidzd (2k)
Post #40 Posted: Thu Aug 05, 2010 3:40 am 
Lives with ko
User avatar

Posts: 147
Liked others: 0
Was liked: 4
Rank: EGF 1d
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 Prisoners: W=0, B=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O X . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . O X . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , O X . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . W . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . O , . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . X . . O . X . O . . . O . X O X . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . O O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Looks ok.

Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 44 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next

All times are UTC - 8 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group