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Offline Magicwand
 Post subject: Re: 56. Violence(?d) vs Magicwand(3d)
Post #381 Posted: Fri Aug 13, 2010 2:05 pm 
Tengen
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i resign.

i counted and am down more than komi. close to 10 points maybe more.
i can not win this game.
earlier counts i did was false count i posted incase my opponent see my hidden :)
sorry for giving observers false infomation.

i had good game in the beginning and i guess i didnt attack his group correctly and the lead shifted to his way. and surprisingly he kept his lead all the way to the end.
and also didnt bite my bates. i believe he is stronger than i thought. but i still think i am stronger :)

nice game Violence.

i will read post comments and post my thoughts after i go home.

thanks everyone for watching this game and sorry for subpar game i displayed.
i will try to have better game on next game.

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Offline Violence
 Post subject: Re: 56. Violence(?d) vs Magicwand(3d)
Post #382 Posted: Fri Aug 13, 2010 2:06 pm 
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Thanks for the game, Magicwand.

And so our epic 3 game series is over.
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Offline Chew Terr
 Post subject: Re: 56. Violence(?d) vs Magicwand(3d)
Post #383 Posted: Fri Aug 13, 2010 2:07 pm 
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Thanks, gentlemen, this game was a lot of fun to watch.

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Offline Violence
 Post subject: Re: 56. Violence(?d) vs Magicwand(3d)
Post #384 Posted: Fri Aug 13, 2010 2:10 pm 
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My god, guys....

Your counts...

I'm incredibly amazed.

My diagram was pretty much a conservative count, and somehow, despite not needing any additional moves... People came up with very different values for the outcome. My diagram should be like W+6-7


Last edited by Violence on Fri Aug 13, 2010 2:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Offline daniel_the_smith
 Post subject: Re: 56. Violence(?d) vs Magicwand(3d)
Post #385 Posted: Fri Aug 13, 2010 2:11 pm 
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Thanks, guys. It was a fun game.

I triple-checked my counting. If the endgame went the way Violence predicted, I get 70.5 for W (including 7 prisoners and 6.5 komi) and 66 for black (including 11 prisoners). I see the prisoner count has magically changed to 9 so that makes it W+6.5 by my count. I missed five white points in my count before.

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Offline Li Kao
 Post subject: Re: 56. Violence(?d) vs Magicwand(3d)
Post #386 Posted: Fri Aug 13, 2010 2:11 pm 
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SE thinks violence's position is W+6.5 but with only 10 (not 11) white prisoners.

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Last edited by Li Kao on Fri Aug 13, 2010 2:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Offline Magicwand
 Post subject: Re: 56. Violence(?d) vs Magicwand(3d)
Post #387 Posted: Fri Aug 13, 2010 2:14 pm 
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Violence wrote:
My god, guys....

Your counts...

I'm incredibly amazed.

My diagram was pretty much a conservative count, and somehow, despite not needing any additional moves... People came up with very different values for the outcome.


i looked at your count..and i am losing more than your diag. probably 5 points more.
when i am down and end is near..i can not just play correct move and exptect to win.
i twisted sequences and made it complicated as possible but your judgement was impressive.

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Offline Violence
 Post subject: Re: 56. Violence(?d) vs Magicwand(3d)
Post #388 Posted: Fri Aug 13, 2010 2:17 pm 
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Yeah... I tend to count conservatively when I actually sit down and count, so it's usually skewed toward my opponent. This is why I don't count until quite late in the game, unless I have to make a big decision, like that ko.

I think I wasn't doing well until I captured the F5 group. To me, that's the turning point in the game.
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Offline Kirby
 Post subject: Re: 56. Violence(?d) vs Magicwand(3d)
Post #389 Posted: Fri Aug 13, 2010 2:20 pm 
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Bravo. It's a pity that you two won't play another.

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Offline Magicwand
 Post subject: Re: 56. Violence(?d) vs Magicwand(3d)
Post #390 Posted: Fri Aug 13, 2010 2:21 pm 
Tengen
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Kirby wrote:
Bravo. It's a pity that you two won't play another.


we probably willl meet in L19 game.

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Offline daniel_the_smith
 Post subject: Re: 56. Violence(?d) vs Magicwand(3d)
Post #391 Posted: Fri Aug 13, 2010 2:22 pm 
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Best three out of five? Jubango?

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Offline Magicwand
 Post subject: Re: 56. Violence(?d) vs Magicwand(3d)
Post #392 Posted: Fri Aug 13, 2010 3:31 pm 
Tengen
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoners: W=0, B=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . O . X . . O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . B . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . b O . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X X X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . a . O . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O . O . O O . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . X . . O X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

after this move i hated myself for not thinking.
i treated him like a kyu level player.

this move is wrong for 2 reason.
first: i shouldnt play there. instead i should have player at 'a'
second: if i want to play there (which is wrong timing) i should have played at 'b'

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This post by Magicwand was liked by: Chew Terr
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Offline Magicwand
 Post subject: Re: 56. Violence(?d) vs Magicwand(3d)
Post #393 Posted: Fri Aug 13, 2010 3:31 pm 
Tengen
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daniel_the_smith wrote:
Best three out of five? Jubango?


i dont mind playing 3 out of 5 :)

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Offline Magicwand
 Post subject: Re: 56. Violence(?d) vs Magicwand(3d)
Post #394 Posted: Fri Aug 13, 2010 3:56 pm 
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoners: W=0, B=0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . O . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | X . X O . . O . X X . O . X . X O . . |
$$ | . X . O . . . O O X . . X . . X X O . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . X O X O X O . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . O O O . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X X X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O . O . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O . O . O O . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . X . a B . X . . O X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . X O O . . . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . X O . X . . . X . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

this is another move i haved.
it should have been 'a' then white would have been in trouble.

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Offline Joaz Banbeck
 Post subject: Re: 56. Violence(?d) vs Magicwand(3d)
Post #395 Posted: Fri Aug 13, 2010 4:25 pm 
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Kirby wrote:
Bravo. It's a pity that you two won't play another.


It's a pity that they won't write more.

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Offline gowan
 Post subject: Re: 56. Violence(?d) vs Magicwand(3d)
Post #396 Posted: Fri Aug 13, 2010 6:56 pm 
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At this point in the game it is Black's move:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 Prisoners: W=6, B=10
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . X X O . . . O X . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | X . X O . . O . X X . O . X . X O . . |
$$ | X X O O . . . O O X . . X . . X X O . |
$$ | O O O . . O . . O O X X X O X O X O . |
$$ | . X O X . . . . . X O . . . O O O O . |
$$ | . X X O O X X X O O . . . . . . X X . |
$$ | . . X X O O . . X . . . . . O O O O X |
$$ | . . X . X O . X . X . . . . X O O X . |
$$ | . . X X . . . X . X . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . X O O O a X X O . X X X . . . X . |
$$ | . X O . O X O O O . O . O . . . O 3 . |
$$ | O X X O O X O X X . O . O . O O . . 1 |
$$ | . O O . . X X O . X . X b . O X O O X |
$$ | . . . . . X O O . . . . . . . X X X 2 |
$$ | . . X O . X O X X X . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . O O . O . O . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O O O X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


If Black cuts at point a, G9, White might have trouble making eyes for the big group so White will have to take off the captured stones. Might make a difference.
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Offline fwiffo
 Post subject: Re: 56. Violence(?d) vs Magicwand(3d)
Post #397 Posted: Fri Aug 13, 2010 7:39 pm 
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Best of 5! Best of 5! Best of 7!!!!11oneeleveneleventyonebilbobagins

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Offline ketchup
 Post subject: Re: 56. Violence(?d) vs Magicwand(3d)
Post #398 Posted: Fri Aug 13, 2010 8:07 pm 
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fwiffo wrote:
Best of 5! Best of 5! Best of 7!!!!11oneeleveneleventyonebilbobagins


I love this. I like to watch games, of all sorts. When I find a good series between two players, I always want them to continue playing more and more. This happens quite often on KGS. It also happens when I find some fun SC2 commentary with great players.

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Offline Jedo
 Post subject: Re: 56. Violence(?d) vs Magicwand(3d)
Post #399 Posted: Fri Aug 13, 2010 9:32 pm 
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You're both great players, and I hope one day I will have clashes as epic as this...

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Offline Magicwand
 Post subject: Re: 56. Violence(?d) vs Magicwand(3d)
Post #400 Posted: Fri Aug 13, 2010 9:45 pm 
Tengen
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gowan wrote:
At this point in the game it is Black's move:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 Prisoners: W=6, B=10
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . X X O . . . O X . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | X . X O . . O . X X . O . X . X O . . |
$$ | X X O O . . . O O X . . X . . X X O . |
$$ | O O O . . O . . O O X X X O X O X O . |
$$ | . X O X . . . . . X O . . . O O O O . |
$$ | . X X O O X X X O O . . . . . . X X . |
$$ | . . X X O O . . X . . . . . O O O O X |
$$ | . . X . X O . X . X . . . . X O O X . |
$$ | . . X X . . . X . X . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . X O O O a X X O . X X X . . . X . |
$$ | . X O . O X O O O . O . O . . . O 3 . |
$$ | O X X O O X O X X . O . O . O O . . 1 |
$$ | . O O . . X X O . X . X B . O X O O X |
$$ | . . . . . X O O . . . . . . . X X X 2 |
$$ | . . X O . X O X X X . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . O O . O . O . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O O O X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


If Black cuts at point a, G9, White might have trouble making eyes for the big group so White will have to take off the captured stones. Might make a difference.


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 Prisoners: W=6, B=10
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . X X O . . . O X . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | X . X O . . O . X X . O . X . X O . . |
$$ | X X O O . . . O O X . . X . . X X O . |
$$ | O O O . . O . . O O X X X O X O X O . |
$$ | . X O X . . . . . X O . . . O O O O . |
$$ | . X X O O X X X O O . . . . . . X X . |
$$ | . . X X O O . . X . . . . . O O O O X |
$$ | . . X . X O . X . X . . . 9 X O O X . |
$$ | . . X X . . . X . X a . . . 7 X X . . |
$$ | . . X O O O 4 X X O . X X X 8 . . X . |
$$ | . X O . O X O O O 5 O . O . . 0 O 3 . |
$$ | O X X O O X O X X . O . O . O O . . 1 |
$$ | . O O . . X X O . X . X 6 . O X O O X |
$$ | . . . . . X O O . . . . . . . X X X 2 |
$$ | . . X O . X O X X X . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . O O . O . O . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O O O X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

i thought about that also... i will have to give him penuki in sente and also have to expose my weakness at 'a'.
making him take my 6 stone(3point) is simply not enough to win. at the end i was trying my best to twist the sequence to find a way to win. i knew i was losing toomuch. penuki in the middle would have made the board too simple for him to finish.

edit: but now i am thinking...this might have lured him in. and things get more complicated. :)
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoners: W=6, B=10
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . X X O . . . O X . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | X . X O . . O . X X . O . X . X O . . |
$$ | X X O O . . . O O X . . X . . X X O . |
$$ | O O O . . O . . O O X X X O X O X O . |
$$ | . X O X . . . . . X O . . . O O O O . |
$$ | . X X O O X X X O O . . . . . . X X . |
$$ | . . X X O O . . X . . . . . O O O O X |
$$ | . . X . X O . X . X . . . . X O O X . |
$$ | . . X X . . . X . X . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . X O O O . X X O . X X X . . . X . |
$$ | 1 X O . O X O O O . O . O . . . O O . |
$$ | O X X O O X O X X . O . O . O O . . O |
$$ | . O O . . X X O . X . X . . O X O O X |
$$ | . . . . . X O O . . . . . . . X X X X |
$$ | . . X O . X O X X X . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . O O . O . O . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O O O X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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