45. emeraldemon (3k) vs. tj86430 (7k)

emeraldemon · Post by **emeraldemon** » Tue Aug 17, 2010 11:12 am

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm1 Prisoners: W=1, B=0 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . O O X . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . O O X X . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . O O . O X X . . O X . X X . | $$ | . . . , O X X X . X O . . X . X O O . | $$ | . . O . W . . O X . . . . X . O . O . | $$ | . . . O X X . . . . X X . . . O O . . | $$ | . . . O O X O . . . . . O . O . . O O | $$ | . . . X X O X X . . . . . . . . X X O | $$ | . . X . O O O X . . . X . O O . . . X | $$ | . . . , O X X X . , . . . . X X . X . | $$ | . . O . X O O X . . . . X . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . O . O O X . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . O X . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . O X . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . O . . . O X . . . . . . . . . X . | $$ | . . . , . . O X . , . . . . . X X O . | $$ | . . . O . O X . . X . . X X X O O O . | $$ | . . . . O . X . . . . X O O O . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Ok, I spent a while trying to read the game to the end:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$W $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . O O X . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . O O X X . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . O O . O X X . . O X . X X . | $$ | . . . , O X X X 3 X O . . X . X O O . | $$ | . . O . 1 2 . O X . . . 0 X . O . O . | $$ | . . . O X X 4 . . . X X 9 . . O O . . | $$ | . . . O O X O . . . 8 7 O . O . . O O | $$ | . . . X X O X X . . . . . . . . X X O | $$ | . . X . O O O X . . . X . O O . . . X | $$ | . . . , O X X X . , . . . 5 X X . X . | $$ | . . O . X O O X . . . . X 6 . . . . . | $$ | . . . . O . O O X . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . O X . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . O X . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . O . . . O X . . . . . . . . . X . | $$ | . . . , . . O X . , . . . . . X X O . | $$ | . . . O . O X . . X . . X X X O O O . | $$ | . . . . O . X . . . . X O O O . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wc $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . O O X . . . . . 0 . | $$ | . . . . . . . . O O X X . . . . . . 8 | $$ | . . . O . O O . O X X . . O X . X X 7 | $$ | . . . , O X X X O X O . . X . X O O 9 | $$ | . . O . O X . O X . . . X X . O . O . | $$ | . . . O X X X . . . X X O . . O O . . | $$ | . . . O O X O . . . X O O . O . . O O | $$ | . . . X X O X X . . 2 1 . . . . X X O | $$ | . . X . O O O X . . . X 3 O O . . . X | $$ | . . . , O X X X . , . . 4 O X X . X . | $$ | . . O . X O O X . . . . X X . . . . . | $$ | . . . . O . O O X . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . O X . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . O X . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . O . . . O X . . . . . . . . . X . | $$ | . . . , . . O X . , . . . . . X X O . | $$ | . . . O . O X . . X . . X X X O O O . | $$ | . . . . O . X . . . 6 X O O O . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . 5 . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wc $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . O O X . . . . . X . | $$ | . . . . . . . . O O X X . . . . . . X | $$ | . . . O . O O 0 O X X . . O X . X X O | $$ | . . . , O X X X O X O . . X . X O O O | $$ | . . O . O X . O X . . . X X 6 O . O . | $$ | . . . O X X X . . . X X O 4 . O O . . | $$ | . . . O O X O . . . X O O 5 O . . O O | $$ | . . . X X O X X . . X O . . . 3 X X O | $$ | . . X . O O O X . . . X O O O 1 2 . X | $$ | . . . , O X X X . , . . X O X X . X . | $$ | . . O . X O O X . . . . X X . . . . . | $$ | . . . . O . O O X . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . O X . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . O X . . . . . . . . X . 8 | $$ | . . O . . . O X . . . . . . . . . X 7 | $$ | . . . , . . O X . , . . . . . X X O 9 | $$ | . . . O . O X . . X . . X X X O O O . | $$ | . . . . O . X . . . X X O O O . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wc $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . O O X . . . . . X . | $$ | . . . . . . . 1 O O X X . . . . . . X | $$ | . . . O . O O X O X X . . O X . X X O | $$ | . . . , O X X X O X O . . X . X O O O | $$ | . . O . O X . O X . . . X X X O . O . | $$ | . . . O X X X . . . X X O X . O O . . | $$ | . . . O O X O . . . X O O O O . 8 O O | $$ | . . . X X O X X . . X O . . . O X X O | $$ | . . X . O O O X . . . X O O O O X . X | $$ | . . . , O X X X . , . . X O X X . X . | $$ | . . O . X O O X . . . . X X . . . . . | $$ | . . . . O . O O X . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . O X . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . O X . . . . . . . . X . X | $$ | . . O . . . O X . . . . . . . . . X O | $$ | . . . , . . O X . , . . . . . X X O O | $$ | . . . O . O X . . X . . X X X O O O . | $$ | . . . . O 4 X . . . X X O O O . . . . | $$ | . . . . 7 5 6 . . . 2 O 3 . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Final Result: W+2.5. Black didn't make that sente push, and I think it gave me the little edge I needed. It's a bit complicated, but I think all my next 10 moves are sente. Black can't deviate from the sequence above without losing points. It's a very close game, but I think I can protect those 2.5 points to the end.

The whole thing is a bit complex, but here's why my first two moves are sente:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm1 Prisoners: W=1, B=0 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . O O X . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . O O X X . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . O O . O X X . . O X . X X . | $$ | . . . , O X X X 7 X O . . X . X O O . | $$ | . . O . 1 3 5 O X . . . . X . O . O . | $$ | . . . O X X 4 . . . X X . . . O O . . | $$ | . . . O O X O 6 . . . . O . O . . O O | $$ | . . . X X O X X . . . . . . . . X X O | $$ | . . X . O O O X . . . X 2 O O . . . X | $$ | . . . , O X X X . , . . . . X X . X . | $$ | . . O . X O O X . . . . X . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . O . O O X . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . O X . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . O X . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . O . . . O X . . . . . . . . . X . | $$ | . . . , . . O X . , . . . . . X X O . | $$ | . . . O . O X . . X . . X X X O O O . | $$ | . . . . O . X . . . . X O O O . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm1 Prisoners: W=1, B=0 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . O O X . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . O O X X . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . O O 5 O X X . . O X . X X . | $$ | . . . , O X X X 1 X O . . X . X O O . | $$ | . . O . O X . O X . . . . X . O . O . | $$ | . . . O X X 3 4 . . X X . . . O O . . | $$ | . . . O O X O . . . . . O . O . . O O | $$ | . . . X X O X X . . . . . . . . X X O | $$ | . . X . O O O X . . . X 2 O O . . . X | $$ | . . . , O X X X . , . . . . X X . X . | $$ | . . O . X O O X . . . . X . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . O . O O X . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . O X . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . O X . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . O . . . O X . . . . . . . . . X . | $$ | . . . , . . O X . , . . . . . X X O . | $$ | . . . O . O X . . X . . X X X O O O . | $$ | . . . . O . X . . . . X O O O . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

tj86430 · Post by **tj86430** » Tue Aug 17, 2010 11:21 am

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm1 Prisoners: W=1, B=0 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . O O X . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . O O X X . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . O O . O X X . . O X . X X . | $$ | . . . , O X X X . X O . . X . X O O . | $$ | . . O . O B . O X . . . . X . O . O . | $$ | . . . O X X . . . . X X . . . O O . . | $$ | . . . O O X O . . . . . O . O . . O O | $$ | . . . X X O X X . . . . . . . . X X O | $$ | . . X . O O O X . . . X . O O . . . X | $$ | . . . , O X X X . , . . . . X X . X . | $$ | . . O . X O O X . . . . X . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . O . O O X . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . O X . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . O X . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . O . . . O X . . . . . . . . . X . | $$ | . . . , . . O X . , . . . . . X X O . | $$ | . . . O . O X . . X . . X X X O O O . | $$ | . . . . O . X . . . . X O O O . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

emeraldemon · Post by **emeraldemon** » Tue Aug 17, 2010 2:30 pm

Well, I may as well put this out here. I don't expect you'll agree with this whole sequence, but just choose the point where I made a mistake and we'll continue from there

. If you do agree, the final result is W+2.5.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wc Suggestion 1 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . O O X . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . O O X X . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . O O . O X X . . O X . X X . | $$ | . . . , O X X X 1 X O . . X . X O O . | $$ | . . O . O X . O X . . . 8 X . O . O . | $$ | . . . O X X 2 . . . X X 7 . . O O . . | $$ | . . . O O X O . . . 6 5 O . O . . O O | $$ | . . . X X O X X . . 0 9 . . . . X X O | $$ | . . X . O O O X . . . X . O O . . . X | $$ | . . . , O X X X . , . . . 3 X X . X . | $$ | . . O . X O O X . . . . X 4 . . . . . | $$ | . . . . O . O O X . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . O X . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . O X . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . O . . . O X . . . . . . . . . X . | $$ | . . . , . . O X . , . . . . . X X O . | $$ | . . . O . O X . . X . . X X X O O O . | $$ | . . . . O . X . . . . X O O O . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wc Suggestion 2 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . O O X . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . O O X X . . . . . 8 6 | $$ | . . . O . O O . O X X . . O X . X X 5 | $$ | . . . , O X X X O X O . . X . X O O 7 | $$ | . . O . O X . O X . . . X X . O . O . | $$ | . . . O X X X . . . X X O . . O O . . | $$ | . . . O O X O . . . X O O . O . . O O | $$ | . . . X X O X X . . X O . . . . X X O | $$ | . . X . O O O X . . . X 3 O O 9 0 . X | $$ | . . . , O X X X . , . . 4 O X X . X . | $$ | . . O . X O O X . . . . X X . . . . . | $$ | . . . . O . O O X . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . O X . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . O X . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . O . . . O X . . . . . . . . . X . | $$ | . . . , . . O X . , . . . . . X X O . | $$ | . . . O . O X . . X . . X X X O O O . | $$ | . . . . O . X . . . 2 X O O O . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wc Suggestion 4 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . O O X . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . 9 O O X X . . . . . X X | $$ | . . . O . O O 8 O X X . . O X . X X O | $$ | . . . , O X X X O X O . . X . X O O O | $$ | . . O . O X . O X . . . X X 4 O . O . | $$ | . . . O X X X . . . X X O 2 . O O . . | $$ | . . . O O X O . . . X O O 3 O . . O O | $$ | . . . X X O X X . . X O . . . 1 X X O | $$ | . . X . O O O X . . . X O O O O X . X | $$ | . . . , O X X X . , . . X O X X . X . | $$ | . . O . X O O X . . . . X X . . . . . | $$ | . . . . O . O O X . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . O X . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . O X . . . . . . . . X . 6 | $$ | . . O . . . O X . . . . . . . . . X 5 | $$ | . . . , . . O X . , . . . . . X X O 7 | $$ | . . . O . O X . . X . . X X X O O O . | $$ | . . . . O . X . . . X X O O O . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . 0 O . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wc Last part $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . O O X . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . O O O X X . . . . . X X | $$ | . . . O . O O X O X X . . O X . X X O | $$ | . . . , O X X X O X O . . X . X O O O | $$ | . . O . O X . O X . . . X X X O . O . | $$ | . . . O X X X . . . X X O X . O O . . | $$ | . . . O O X O . . . X O O O O . 6 O O | $$ | . . . X X O X X . . X O . . . O X X O | $$ | . . X . O O O X . . . X O O O O X . X | $$ | . . . , O X X X . , . . X O X X . X . | $$ | . . O . X O O X . . . . X X . . . . . | $$ | . . . . O . O O X . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . O X . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . O X . . . . . . . . X . X | $$ | . . O . . . O X . . . . . . . . . X O | $$ | . . . , . . O X . , . . . . . X X O O | $$ | . . . O . O X . . X . . X X X O O O . | $$ | . . . . O 2 X . . . X X O O O . . . . | $$ | . . . . 5 3 4 . . . X O 1 . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

tj86430 · Post by **tj86430** » Tue Aug 17, 2010 10:55 pm

I can think of a couple of alternative sequences, but I don't think I find any that would lead to me winning, so I guess I may as well agree.

Thank you for an interesting game, and congratulations on the win.

explo · Post by **explo** » Wed Aug 18, 2010 5:37 am

tj86430 · Post by **tj86430** » Wed Aug 18, 2010 5:44 am

The game has ended, so there is no need to hide comments any more. I looked, and it seems that you are right, but OTOH white won anyway.

Magicwand · Post by **Magicwand** » Wed Aug 18, 2010 6:00 am

for the beginners who often miss easy endgames:

below sequence is 1.5 point better than what he had in mind.
it is simple but often missed by sdk players.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wc Suggestion 2 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . O O X . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . O O X X . . . . . X X | $$ | . . . O . O O . O X X . . O X . X X O | $$ | . . . , O X X X O X O . . X . X O O O | $$ | . . O . O X . O X . . . X X . O . O . | $$ | . . . O X X X . . . X X O . . O O . . | $$ | . . . O O X O . . . X O O . O . . O O | $$ | . . . X X O X X . . X O . . . . X X O | $$ | . . X . O O O X . . . X O O O O X . X | $$ | . . . , O X X X . , . . X O X X . X . | $$ | . . O . X O O X . . . . X X . . . . . | $$ | . . . . O . O O X . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . O X . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . O X . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . O . . . O X . . . . . . . . . X . | $$ | . . . , . . O X . , . . . . . X X O . | $$ | . . . O . O X . . X . . X X X O O O . | $$ | . . . . O . X . . . 4 X O O O . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . 1 2 3 . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

emeraldemon · Post by **emeraldemon** » Wed Aug 18, 2010 7:24 am

Thanks for the game! Some thoughts abut the game, in particular mistakes:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$c White's Bad Opening $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . b . , O . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . W . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . c . X . . . a . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

I think the above move was a mistake for white. In retrospect I wish I had played something like a or b (as susggested by Dusk Eagle) or maybe c. I think this was a bad strategy and put me behind.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm1 Bad for Black $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . O B . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , O . . X . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . O X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . O O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . X X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

This move is pretty obviously a mistake for black, letting me off too easily. Daniel the Smith made a good suggestion for a better sequence:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm1 Much Better $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . 5 O 3 . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , O . . X 2 X 1 . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X 4 O X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . O O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . X X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm1 Bad for White $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . a . . . . O X . X X . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , O . . X . X O O . | $$ | . . O . . . . . X . . . . X . O . O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . O O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . X X . . . | $$ | . . W . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X X O . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . X X X O O O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

I think this was also a big mistake for W. I should have just protected my stone with a. In my comments I say "I can't stand the idea of passively defending", but really I think black is helping white to make points, so I should just accept. I was close to evening out before, but now I fall behind again.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm1 Bad for Black $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . . O X . X X . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , O . . X . X O O . | $$ | . . O . . . . . X . . . . X . O . O . | $$ | . . . . 1 3 . . . . X . . . . O O . . | $$ | . . . 2 O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . O O . . . . . . . O O . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . X X . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X X O . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . X X X O O O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

This was a big mistake for b. compare to Harleqin's sequence:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm1 Much Better $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . . O X . X X . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , O . . X . X O O . | $$ | . . O . . . . . X . . . . X . O . O . | $$ | . 7 5 3 1 . . . . . X . . . . O O . . | $$ | . . 4 2 O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . 6 X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . O O . . . . . . . O O . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . X X . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X X O . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . X . . X X X O O O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

After this white gets a huge side and it's enough to be competitive again. I think black followed white around a bit too much in the endgame. Consider this sequence I predicted:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm1 Endgame $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . O O X . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . O O X X . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O 2 O O . O X X . . O X . X X . | $$ | . . 4 3 1 X . . . X O . . X . X O O . | $$ | . . O . . . . . X . . . . X . O . O . | $$ | . . . O X X . . . . X B . . . O O . . | $$ | . . . O O X . . . . . . O . O . . O O | $$ | . . . X X O X . . . . . . . . . X X O | $$ | . . X . O O 8 9 . . . X . O O . . . X | $$ | . . . , O X X X . , . . . 6 X X . X . | $$ | . . O . X O O X . . . . X 7 . . . . . | $$ | . . . . O . O O X . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . O X . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . O X . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . O . . . O X . . . . . . . . . X . | $$ | . . . , . . O X . , . . . . . X X O . | $$ | . . . O . W X . . X . . X X X O O O . | $$ | . . . . O . 5 . . . . X O O O . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . 0 . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

In the actual game black just blocked at 5, but the top is sente. I can't trade that stone on the bottom for the top: I have to block I think. that's quite a few points difference given the sente pushes I get there later. But then, I missed the endgame moves suggested by Magicwand and explo, so probably my endgame also needs work!

Thanks again tj86430 for the fun game, and thanks to everyone who commented.

tj86430 · Post by **tj86430** » Wed Aug 18, 2010 10:51 am

emeraldemon wrote:Thanks again tj86430 for the fun game, and thanks to everyone who commented.

Likewise, both to you and for comments.

My teacher (Antti Törmänen, EGF 6 dan) will go through the game on our next session (some time next week), and has promised to give some comments in english I can post here.

Dusk Eagle · Post by **Dusk Eagle** » Wed Aug 18, 2010 3:06 pm

Magicwand, can't white play like this instead?

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wc $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . O O X . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . O O X X . . . . . X X | $$ | . . . O . O O . O X X . . O X . X X O | $$ | . . . , O X X X O X O . . X . X O O O | $$ | . . O . O X . O X . . . X X . O . O . | $$ | . . . O X X X . . . X X O . . O O . . | $$ | . . . O O X O . . . X O O . O . . O O | $$ | . . . X X O X X . . X O . . . . X X O | $$ | . . X . O O O X . . . X O O O O X . X | $$ | . . . , O X X X . , . . X O X X . X . | $$ | . . O . X O O X . . . . X X . . . . . | $$ | . . . . O . O O X . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . O X . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . O X . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . O . . . O X . . . . . . . . . X . | $$ | . . . , . . O X . , . . . . . X X O . | $$ | . . . O . O X . . X . . X X X O O O . | $$ | . . . . O . X . . . 3 X O O O . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . 1 2 . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Harleqin · Post by **Harleqin** » Wed Aug 18, 2010 3:51 pm

I think the correct way is to draw back first, then throw in later. Black's mistake in the game was not to throw in before blocking later.

tj86430 · Post by **tj86430** » Tue Sep 14, 2010 1:45 am

The comments from Antti Törmänen, EGF 6d:

[sgf-full](;GM[1]FF[4]CA[UTF-8]AP[CGoban:3]ST[2]
RU[Japanese]SZ[19]KM[0.50]
PW[White]PB[Black]
;B[pd]
;W[dc]
;B[pp]
;W[dq]
;B[pj]
;W[co]
;B[jq]LB[jo:A][ko:B]C[K4 instead of this would work better with the black sanren-sei. Now there is later the possibility of white pressing the black position down with A or B, which makes it harder for black to develop the centre.]
;W[nc]LB[lc:A][ne:B]C[A is the normal joseki choice for black, though B is technically possible too.]
(;B[ne]
;W[kd]LB[ic:C][lc:B][ld:A]C[White A instead seems better - now white has a pretty nasty weakness at B, which could be realized later by black playing at C, for example.]
;B[kf]
;W[qf]LB[qc:B][id:A]C[A bit of an overplay, white should calmly strengthen his position at A instead. Black B next leaves white in trouble.]
(;B[qe]C[This move strenghtens the white stone, while not fixing the black shape.]
;W[pf]
;B[nd]LB[mc:B][oc:A]C[Thus, black still needs to add another move to his shape, and white got q14 kind of "for free". White A next is sente, and he should take it right away (so that B doesn't capture a white stone so easily).]
(;W[oi]
;B[oj]
;W[ni]LB[qh:A]
;B[mk]
;W[pe]
;B[oc]LB[qd:A]C[Taking things pretty safe - black A instead was surely possible - but in no way throws the game away.]
;W[qd]
;B[qc]
;W[rd]LB[rd:B][re:A]C[Better to capture at A immediately. Black cannot start the ko at B then easily.]
;B[rc]
;W[re]
;B[ci]C[A move in the lower right would have been interesting, too.]
;W[qq]
;B[qp]
;W[pq]
;B[oq]
;W[or]
;B[nq]
;W[nr]
;B[mq]
;W[rp]
;B[ro]
;W[rq]
;B[qn]
;W[ce]
;B[ie]LB[ic:A]C[This move doesn't really threaten the white stones, as white can save them with profit with A (and should do that). Black A instead would have been threatening.]
;W[ck]
;B[jc]LB[ic:A]C[A instead of this one is possible, too.]
;W[ei]LB[cg:B][dg:C][dh:A][eh:E][dj:D]C[Black has many ways of winning the game from this position - all he needs to do is save the c11 stone, for which all these five moves are possible.]
;B[eh]
;W[fh]
;B[fg]
;W[eg]
;B[dh]
;W[fi]
;B[ef]
;W[dg]LB[df:A]C[If black pushes down with A, the game is still good for him.]
(;B[ff]LB[df:A]
;W[df]C[Now the game is unclear again.]
;B[gq]
;W[go]LB[dj:B][gl:A]C[Nice one! If white gets the moyo on the left side, he can well win the game - black should counter with something like A, which threatens to pull some black stones out with B.]
;B[ho]
;W[gn]
;B[hn]
;W[hm]
;B[im]
;W[hl]
;B[il]
;W[gc]
;B[fd]
;W[fc]
;B[qh]
;W[rg]LB[og:A][rh:B]C[A is somewhat bigger than B.]
;B[rh]
;W[og]
;B[hk]
;W[gk]
;B[hj]
;W[ic]
;B[jd]
;W[er]
;B[gj]
;W[fk]
;B[fj]
;W[ej]
;B[ek]
;W[gl]
;B[gh]
;W[el]
;B[li]
;W[sh]
;B[si]
;W[sg]
;B[rj]
;W[jb]
;B[kb]
;W[ib]
;B[kc]
;W[gp]
;B[hp]
;W[mr]
;B[lr]LB[fq:A]C[A is the largest endgame move for now.]
;W[ka]
;B[la]
;W[ja]LB[fq:A]C[Now black has the chance of playing A himelf - m18 is not a big threat in terms of territory. In that case it might be black who wins the game.

This was most of the crucial stuff in this game, I'll stop the comments here!]
;B[lb]
;W[mg]
;B[lf]
;W[fq]
;B[gr]
;W[gi]
;B[hi]
;W[gg]
;B[hh]
;W[he]
;B[hd]
;W[ed]
;B[gd]
;W[ee]
;B[fe]
;W[id]
;B[gf]
;W[nj]
;B[nk]
;W[lg]
;B[kg]
;W[mf]
;B[me]
;W[lh]
;B[kh]
;W[ls]
;B[kr]
;W[mi]
;B[mj]
;W[sc]
;B[sb]
;W[sd]
;B[rb]
;W[pi]
;B[qi]
;W[ph]
;B[nf]
;W[ng]
;B[oe]
;W[so]
;B[sn]
;W[sp]
;B[hc]
;W[hb]LB[if:A]
;B[ks]
;W[ms]
;B[fr]
;W[fs]
;B[gs]
;W[es]
;B[qg]
;W[]
;B[]TW[aa][ba][ca][da][ea][fa][ga][ha][ia][ab][bb][cb][db][eb][fb][gb][ac][bc][cc][ec][ad][bd][cd][dd][ae][be][de][qe][se][af][bf][cf][rf][sf][ag][bg][cg][ah][bh][ch][dh][eh][mh][nh][oh][ai][bi][ci][di][aj][bj][cj][dj][ak][bk][dk][ek][al][bl][cl][dl][fl][am][bm][cm][dm][em][fm][gm][an][bn][cn][dn][en][fn][ao][bo][do][eo][fo][ap][bp][cp][dp][ep][fp][aq][bq][cq][eq][sq][ar][br][cr][dr][pr][qr][rr][sr][as][bs][cs][ds][ns][os][ps][qs][rs][ss]TB[ma][na][oa][pa][qa][ra][sa][mb][nb][ob][pb][qb][lc][mc][nc][pc][kd][ld][md][od][ge][he][je][ke][le][hf][if][jf][gg][hg][ig][jg][ih][jh][ii][ji][ki][ri][ij][jj][kj][lj][qj][sj][ik][jk][kk][lk][ok][pk][qk][rk][sk][jl][kl][ll][ml][nl][ol][pl][ql][rl][sl][jm][km][lm][mm][nm][om][pm][qm][rm][sm][in][jn][kn][ln][mn][nn][on][pn][rn][io][jo][ko][lo][mo][no][oo][po][qo][ip][jp][kp][lp][mp][np][op][hq][iq][kq][lq][hr][ir][jr][hs][is][js])
(;B[df]
;W[cg]
;B[cf]
;W[ch]
;B[bf]
;W[di]
;B[fc]LB[bd:A]C[The corner probably leaves with A, still.]))
(;W[oc]
;B[pe]
;W[qh]C[The usual move for defending the white stones.]
;B[qi]
;W[oi]))
(;B[qc]LB[ic:B][od:A][qh:C]C[Since the black corner stones are now alive, any cut at A or so doesn't really do anything. Next black can attack white with either B or C, which leaves white pretty busy.]))
(;B[lc]
;W[qc]
;B[qd]
;W[pc]
;B[od]
;W[nb]
;B[me]C[The usual variation.]))[/sgf-full]

emeraldemon · Post by **emeraldemon** » Tue Sep 14, 2010 6:53 pm

thanks for getting it reviewed! It seems like we found most of the big things he mentioned, but there were a few good points there I hadn't seen, especially handling the shape on the upper left in the beginning.

Life In 19x19

45. emeraldemon (3k) vs. tj86430 (7k)

Re: 45. emeraldemon (3k) vs. tj86430 (7k)

Re: 45. emeraldemon (3k) vs. tj86430 (7k)

Re: 45. emeraldemon (3k) vs. tj86430 (7k)

Re: 45. emeraldemon (3k) vs. tj86430 (7k)

Re: 45. emeraldemon (3k) vs. tj86430 (7k)

Re: 45. emeraldemon (3k) vs. tj86430 (7k)

Re: 45. emeraldemon (3k) vs. tj86430 (7k)

Re: 45. emeraldemon (3k) vs. tj86430 (7k)

Re: 45. emeraldemon (3k) vs. tj86430 (7k)

Re: 45. emeraldemon (3k) vs. tj86430 (7k)

Re: 45. emeraldemon (3k) vs. tj86430 (7k)

Re: 45. emeraldemon (3k) vs. tj86430 (7k)

Re: 45. emeraldemon (3k) vs. tj86430 (7k)