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Author Message
Offline Kirby
 Post subject: Re: 63. Kerby (2k) vs. Numsgil (6k)
Post #81 Posted: Wed Sep 01, 2010 2:11 pm 
Honinbo

Posts: 9552
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KGS: Kirby
Tygem: 커비라고해
Numsgil wrote:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm65 Move 65 Captures: W: 2 B: 1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . . . . . O . X . . . X . . X . . |
$$ | . . . X X X O . . , . . . . X X O . . |
$$ | . . O O O O . . . X . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O 1 . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . X O O , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X . . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . X O , X . . O . O . . . O O , O . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . O . O X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Scoring and Counting
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . b . . . b . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X b . . . b . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | b X b . . b . O . X . . . X . . X . . |
$$ | . . . X X X O . . b . . . . X X O . . |
$$ | w w O O O O w . . X . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . w O . b . . . . X X b b |
$$ | . . . . . . w . . . . b . . . X O w w |
$$ | . . . . . w . . . . . . b . b . O . . |
$$ | . . . . w . . . . . . . X X . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . X O O , . . . |
$$ | . . . w . . . d a m e . X w . . . . . |
$$ | . . . w . . . . . . . . . O O X . . . |
$$ | . O . w . . . . . . . X . w . . . . . |
$$ | O . O . . . . . . . . . . w . . . . . |
$$ | . O X X . . . . . . . . . w . O . . . |
$$ | b X O , X . . O w O w w w O O , O w w |
$$ | . . X . b . . w . . . . O . O X X b b |
$$ | . . . . b . . w . . . . . O X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . b . . w . . . . . w . X . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Same trick. Let's count moyo's like they're solid territory to see if white is asking for too much (still rounding to multiples of 5).

Black:

Top Right: ~50 points
Top Left: ~10 points
Bottom Left: ~15 points
Bottom Right: ~5 points (actually it's like 7, which is weird to round to 5 but let's err conservatively I guess).

White:
Left: ~35 points
Bottom: ~15 points
Right: ~35 points

So the score is currently something like: Black 80 White 85. We can add a 5 point komi to white if we really want to treat this as an even game.

Which puts my 10 points behind or so, but I have sente. More reasonable than last time, certainly. Right on the fence between "I'm behind" and "it's an even game", especially with my score counting being so loose. So I'm not really sure if I need to invade, or if I can reasonably get away with reductions and strong defense of my moyo on top.


Strategy and Thoughts
Defending the bottom moyo is what I would have done, so good for him. I think playing high is a potential mistake as it leaves behind some significant aji.

Based on the score, I'm really on the fence about invading or not. I'm not good at invading (in that I can't read out what's going to happen before it happens since it involves peculiar play by either side for the first half dozen moves or so), so if I can win without playing an invasion inside a white moyo I'll be happy.

Anyway, these are the big points on the board. I'll examine each a bit more in depth in different tactics sections below:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm64 Move 64 Captures: W: 2 B: 1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . . . . . O . X . . . X . . X . . |
$$ | . . . X X X O . . , . . . . X X O . . |
$$ | . . O O O O . . . X . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O c . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . d . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . X O O , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X . . . |
$$ | . O . . e . . . . . . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . b . . |
$$ | . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . X O , X . . O . O . . . O O , O . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . a . . . . O . O X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


'a' is an end game tesuji. When it's on teh second line it's big. When it's on the third line it's less common, but huge. The hard part is that if white blocks on the outside I have to be able to exploit enough aji to live with it.

'b' is a weak point (maybe?) of this white formation. There's so much aji with my stone at Q8, and white is so high (almost all stones on the 4th line or above), that living inside is a distinct possibility. I'd say 40% chance that I could live inside. And I think 'b' is how to start that sequence. The question becomes: if I fail, does white gain an appalling amount of thickness he can use to counterattack? I'm pretty strong on all sides, so I don't think so.

'c' These two stones are in contact, and they both really urgently want to walk. Whoever walks first changes the score in this area by a significant amount, since these are boundary stones between two moyos. Actually now that I'm building a moyo on the top, this is a really urgent move.

'd' A basic reduction against the white moyo.

'e' A reduction from the other side. Not terribly interesting, though, so I'm not going to explore it.


Tactics and Variations 'a'
This is what I want to be able to get away with
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . X O , X . . O . O . . . O O , O . . |
$$ | . . X . . . 3 1 2 . . . O . O X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


If white blocks on the other side, I don't think it works out well for him. This is the sort of thing that branches very quickly, and the reading is very difficult. But I think it's a reasonable risk/reward ratio.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X X . . . 8 6 . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . X O . X . 7 O 5 O . . . O O , O . . |
$$ | . . X . b 0 2 1 3 4 . . O . O X X . . |
$$ | . . . c d a 9 f g . . . . O X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . e . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Tactics and Variations 'b'
Maybe something like this?

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ -------------------
$$ . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ X . . . X . . X . . |
$$ , . . . . X X O . . |
$$ X . . . . . O . . . |
$$ . . . . . . X X . . |
$$ . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ . . . X X . O . . . |
$$ , . . X O O , . . . |
$$ . . . X . . . 6 4 . |
$$ . . . . O O X . 5 . |
$$ . . X . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . 1 3 . |
$$ . . . . . . O 7 2 . |
$$ O . . . O O 9 O 8 . |
$$ . . . O . O X X . . |
$$ . . . . O X . X . . |
$$ . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ -------------------[/go]


Tactics and Variations 'c'
I think I can get away with this in sente. It's big, too.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . . . . . O . X . . . X . . X . . |
$$ | . . . X X X O . . , . . . . X X O . . |
$$ | . . O O O O . . . X . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O 1 . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . 2 . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . O . . . |[/go]


White does not want to ignore.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . . . . . O . X . . . X . . X . . |
$$ | . . . X X X O . . , . . . . X X O . . |
$$ | . . O O O O . . . X . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . 4 O 1 . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . 3 . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . O . . . |[/go]


White wants this point, too. It enlarges the wall on this side by quite a bit.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . . . . . O . X . . . X . . X . . |
$$ | . . . X X X O . . , . . . . X X O . . |
$$ | . . O O O O . . . X 2 . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O 1 . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . O . . . |[/go]


Tactics and Variations 'd'
Just outside the moyo boundary. Also near the middle of the line, which is the weakest part. Even after white defends I'm not in danger so I get to make this move in sente.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ {LN J14 D10}
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . . . . . O . X . . . X . . X . . |
$$ | . . . X X X O . . , . . . . X X O . . |
$$ | . . O O O O . . . X . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . 2 . 1 . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . X O O , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X . . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . X O , X . . O . O . . . O O , O . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . O . O X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Tactics and Variations Conclusion
So this is the actual sequence I'm shooting for. Get all the sente sequences I can, starting with the one that feels urgent, then take the huge end game point in gote.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ {LN J13 D10}
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . . . . . O . X . . . X . . X . . |
$$ | . . . X X X O . . , . . . . X X O . . |
$$ | . . O O O O . . . X . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O 1 . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . 2 . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . 6 4 . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . 5 3 . . . . . X X . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . X O O , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X . . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . X O , X . . O . O . . . O O , O . . |
$$ | . . X . . . 9 7 8 . . . O . O X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Wow...

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Offline Numsgil
 Post subject: Re: 63. Kerby (2k) vs. Numsgil (6k)
Post #82 Posted: Wed Sep 01, 2010 3:35 pm 
Lives in gote
User avatar

Posts: 614
Liked others: 28
Was liked: 65
Rank: 1 Kyu KGS
KGS: Numsgil
Kirby wrote:
Wow...


Just that there was a lot of stuff there? Or if something looks off, or I'm missing something obvious? Or just commenting that I'm overthinking things?

If it's not appropriate for me to hear whatever you're thinking right now in the middle of the game, dump it in some hide quotes and I'll read it after the game. This last post all felt pretty nice as far as depth, breadth, thought, and fundamentals, so if it's not I'd really like to know :)

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Offline Kerby
 Post subject: Re: 63. Kerby (2k) vs. Numsgil (6k)
Post #83 Posted: Wed Sep 01, 2010 9:07 pm 
Dies with sente
User avatar

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Liked others: 0
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Rank: KGS-AGA-CGA all 2k
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm66 Move 66 Captures: W: 2 B: 1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . . . . . O . X . . . X . . X . . |
$$ | . . . X X X O . . , . . . . X X O . . |
$$ | . . O O O O . . . X . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O X . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . 1 . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . X O O , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X . . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . X O , X . . O . O . . . O O , O . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . O . O X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


A good choice by Nums, He really solidified his territory on the upper right. I choose to respond here as I would like to start solidifying the left side. I am not afraid of the cut it would go like this if he tried which would be horrible for him:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . . . . 8 O . X . . . X . . X . . |
$$ | . . . X X X O 6 7 , . . . . X X O . . |
$$ | . . O O O O 2 4 5 X . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . 3 9 O X . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . 1 . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . X O O , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X . . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . X O , X . . O . O . . . O O , O . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . O . O X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . . . . X O 4 X 5 . . X . . X . . |
$$ | . . . X X X 1 X O 2 3 . . . X X O . . |
$$ | . . O O O O X X O X . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O O O X . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . X O O , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X . . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . X O , X . . O . O . . . O O , O . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . O . O X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


If I don't respond locally here He will later get this move in sente which would suck for me hence my response:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . . . . . O . X . . . X . . X . . |
$$ | . . . X X X O . . , . . . . X X O . . |
$$ | . . O O O O . . . X . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O X . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . 1 . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . X O O , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X . . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . X O , X . . O . O . . . O O , O . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . O . O X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I would like to get the following move as it will allow me to invade at "a" because the cut at "b" will not work for Nums:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . . . . . O . X . . . X . . X . . |
$$ | . . . X X X O . . , . . . . X X O . . |
$$ | . . O O O O . . . X . . . . . O . 2 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O X . . . . . X X 1 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . X O 3 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . a . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . O b . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . X O O , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X . . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . X O , X . . O . O . . . O O , O . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . O . O X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I don't feel it would be worth just starting at "a" and breaking in to his moyo at the expense of losing out on the side perhaps if I had a stronger attack on his 5 floating stones in the middle:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . . . . . O . X . . . X . . X . . |
$$ | . . . X X X O . . , . . . . X X O . . |
$$ | . . O O O O . . . X . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O X . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O . . . . 9 . X O 8 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 2 O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X X 3 O 4 6 . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . X O O , 5 7 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X . . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . X O , X . . O . O . . . O O , O . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . O . O X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I am a bit nervous after seeing the real Kirby wow Nums. I am guessing he is planning some sort of invasion on the left, but I don't see it. I am eager to see what Nums has in store for me.

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Offline Numsgil
 Post subject: Re: 63. Kerby (2k) vs. Numsgil (6k)
Post #84 Posted: Wed Sep 01, 2010 9:34 pm 
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm67 Move 67 Captures: W: 2 B: 1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . . . . . O . X . . . X . . X . . |
$$ | . . . X X X O . . , . . . . X X O . . |
$$ | . . O O O O . . . X . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O X . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . 1 . . . . . X X . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . X O O , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X . . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . X O , X . . O . O . . . O O , O . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . O . O X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Strategy and Thoughts
Continuing from my last diagram, this is just trying to be a reduction against white's moyo. If I do this right it should end in sente.

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Offline Kirby
 Post subject: Re: 63. Kerby (2k) vs. Numsgil (6k)
Post #85 Posted: Wed Sep 01, 2010 9:40 pm 
Honinbo

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Numsgil wrote:
Kirby wrote:
Wow...


Just that there was a lot of stuff there? Or if something looks off, or I'm missing something obvious? Or just commenting that I'm overthinking things?

If it's not appropriate for me to hear whatever you're thinking right now in the middle of the game, dump it in some hide quotes and I'll read it after the game. This last post all felt pretty nice as far as depth, breadth, thought, and fundamentals, so if it's not I'd really like to know :)


@Numsgil
I just meant that you had a lot of "tactics" tags :)

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Offline Numsgil
 Post subject: Re: 63. Kerby (2k) vs. Numsgil (6k)
Post #86 Posted: Thu Sep 02, 2010 9:44 pm 
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@Kirby
Let me know if it's safe to read your reply. I won't open it unless you tell me it's aright.

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Offline Chew Terr
 Post subject: Re: 63. Kerby (2k) vs. Numsgil (6k)
Post #87 Posted: Fri Sep 03, 2010 8:30 am 
Gosei
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Numsgil: Yes, you can.

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Offline Numsgil
 Post subject: Re: 63. Kerby (2k) vs. Numsgil (6k)
Post #88 Posted: Fri Sep 03, 2010 12:00 pm 
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:P Yes, I have a lot of tags. I'm still trying to figure out a good way to get a good brain dump without it just being way too much information or not nearly enough.

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Offline Kirby
 Post subject: Re: 63. Kerby (2k) vs. Numsgil (6k)
Post #89 Posted: Fri Sep 03, 2010 2:03 pm 
Honinbo

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Numsgil wrote:
:P Yes, I have a lot of tags. I'm still trying to figure out a good way to get a good brain dump without it just being way too much information or not nearly enough.


The way you are doing it is perfectly fine. I was just impressed.

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Offline Kerby
 Post subject: Re: 63. Kerby (2k) vs. Numsgil (6k)
Post #90 Posted: Tue Sep 07, 2010 4:12 pm 
Dies with sente
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Rank: KGS-AGA-CGA all 2k
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm68 Move 68 Captures: W: 2 B: 1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . . . . . O . X . . . X . . X . . |
$$ | . . . X X X O . . , . . . . X X O . . |
$$ | . . O O O O . . . X . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O X . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X . 1 . . . X X . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . X O O , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X . . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . X O , X . . O . O . . . O O , O . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . O . O X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I don't feel Nums dares hop into my side without running his stone at least once. This gives me a preemptive invasions of a potential moyo Nums seems to be aiming for in the middle. I can solidify the side after.

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Offline Numsgil
 Post subject: Re: 63. Kerby (2k) vs. Numsgil (6k)
Post #91 Posted: Tue Sep 07, 2010 5:36 pm 
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm69 Move 69 Captures: W: 2 B: 1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . . . . . O . X . . . X . . X . . |
$$ | . . . X X X O . . , . . . . X X O . . |
$$ | . . O O O O . . . X . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O X . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X . O . . . X X . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . X O O , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X . . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . X O , X . . O . O . . . O O , O . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . 1 . . . . O . O X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Strategy and Thoughts
Hmm, so I lied. White actually has a large central moyo going on right now, which made my move an invasion instead of a reduction. A really deep invasion, actually. Which isn't what I want at all, so that last move was a mistake. And it also means my count was probably off.

So I need to rethink things. As is, I can treat this as a forcing move and see if I can think of a better place to play.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc
$$ {LN C6 H4}
$$ {LN J13 K4}
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . . . . . O . X . . . X . . X . . |
$$ | . . . X X X O . . , . . . . X X O . . |
$$ | . . O O O O . . . X . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O X . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X . . . . . X X . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . X O O , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X . . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . X O , X . . O . O . . . O O , O . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . O . O X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Score and Counting
Okay, let's try this again.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . b . . . b . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X b . . . b . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | b X b . . b . O . X . . . X . . X . . |
$$ | . . . X X X O . . , . . . . X X O . . |
$$ | w w O O O O w w . X . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O X . . . . . X X b b |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O . b . . . . X O w w |
$$ | . . . . . . . . w . . b . . b w O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X . O . . . X X . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . w , . . X O O w . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . w . . . X . . w . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . w . . . . O O X . . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . . w . X . . . w . . . |
$$ | O . O w w . . . . w . . . . . w . . . |
$$ | w O X X . w . . . w . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | b X O , X . w O . O w w . O O , O w w |
$$ | . . X . b . . w . . . . O . O X X b b |
$$ | . . . . b . . w . . . . . O X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . b . . w . . . . . w b X . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Black:
Top Left: 10
Top Right: 50
Bottom Left: 15
Bottom Right: 5
Total: 80

White:
Bottom: 15
Right side: 25
Left: 70
Komi: 5
Total: 115

So the fact that the left moyo really does cover a large area of the center, and white has started closing it off now, means I'm not in a good position. So I'm behind enough that an invasion really is necessary, probably. Anyway, let's consider different options below:


Tactics and Variations Part A
Okay, so let's see what happens if I stick with the plan of making a reduction. I can treat the move I just played as a forcing move and just leave it (it's not a very good forcing move, but what's done is done).

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . b . . . . b . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . b . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | b X b . b . . O . X . . . X . . X . . |
$$ | . . . X X X O . . , . . . . X X O . . |
$$ | w w O O O O w w . X . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O X . . . . . X X b b |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . X O w w |
$$ | . . . . . . . . w . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X . O . . . X X . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . w , . . X O O , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . w 2 . . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . w w . . . . . . . O O X . . . |
$$ | . O . w . . . . . . . X . . . w . . . |
$$ | O . O . . 1 . . . . . . . . . w . . . |
$$ | w O X X . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | b X O , X b . O . O w w w O O , O . . |
$$ | . . X . . . 5 3 4 . . . O . O X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . b w . . . . O X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . b w . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


And then count the score to see if it's enough:

Black:
Bottom left: 20
Top left: 10
Top Right: 50
Bottom Right: 5
Total: 85

White:
Right side: 25
Bottom: 10
Left side: 55
Komi: 5
Total: 95

...

So yeah, that's within 10 points so the game would still be somewhat close. So it's not an unreasonable line of play. Whoever has the stronger end game would probably win. I tend to have a pretty good endgame, though since white is several stones stronger I'm not sure if I can really rely on it. So eh, let's see what else there is.


Tactics and Variations Part B
What if I use the momentum of my stone and continue the invasion? I should expect to end in gote, hopefully either connected out or with life. But then white can take sente to take the large move on the bottom.

This sequence isn't optimal at all, and actually if it went like this I think I'd still get sente out of it somehow, but if we assume that the invasion will have to end in gote, and we just want an idea of the resulting score:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . b . . . . b . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . b . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | b X b . b . . O . X . . . X . . X . . |
$$ | . . . X X X O . . b . . . . X X O . . |
$$ | . . O O O O . . . X . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . w . . . O X . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . . w . . . O . b . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . w . . . . . . b . . b w O . . |
$$ | . . . . w . X . 1 . . . X X . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O w . . . . , . . X O O w . . . |
$$ | . . . . w . 2 . . . . . X . . w . . . |
$$ | . . . w w . . 6 . . . . . O O X . . . |
$$ | . O . . w . 3 4 . 8 . X . . . w . . . |
$$ | O . O w 7 . . 5 . . . . . . . w . . . |
$$ | w O X X . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | b X O , X . w O w O w w . O O , O w w |
$$ | . . X . 0 9 . . . . . . O . O X X b b |
$$ | . . . . b w . . . . . . . O X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . b w . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


It looks like white actually gets sente after this sequence on the bottom, though. So maybe it's really reverse sente for me instead of gote.

Black:
Bottom Left: 15
Bottom Right: 5
Top Left: 10
Top Right: 50
Total: 80

White:
Bottom: 25
Left: 35
Right: 25
Komi: 5
Total: 90

So actually that's the same spread as the reduction. I guess that tells you how huge the bottom move is. And actually, it looks like white can make the bottom move in sente...


Tactics and Variations Part C
Working on that last diagram, I realize that the move on the bottom might be reverse sente. Which makes it way larger than I thought at first. Easily the largest point on the board, even with white's moyo. So what if I go for it first? What can white do? His moyo, at least the center part of it, still has two open borders I could reduce against.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . b . . . . b . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . b . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | b X b . b . . O . X . . . X . . X . . |
$$ | . . . X X X O . . b . . . . X X O . . |
$$ | w w O O O O . w . X . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O X . . . . . X X b b |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O . b . . . . X O w w |
$$ | . . . . . . . . w . . b . . b . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X . O . . . X X . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . w , . . X O O w . . . |
$$ | . . . . . 6 w 4 w . . . X . . w . . . |
$$ | . . . . w . . . . . . . . O O X . . . |
$$ | . O . w 5 . . . . . . X . . . w . . . |
$$ | O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . w . . . |
$$ | . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . X O , X . . O . O w w w O O , O w w |
$$ | . . X . . . 3 1 2 . . . O . O X X b b |
$$ | . . . . . . . b w . . . . O X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . b w . . . . w b X . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


White:
Left: 50
Bottom: 10
Right: 25
Komi: 5
Total: 90

Black:
Bottom Left: 20
Bottom Right: 5
Top Left: 10
Top Right: 50
Total: 85

So yeah, there's some fudge here definitely, but this is a reasonable line of play, which will leave the score close.



Tactics and Variations: Conclusion
Wow, so actually, the end game move on the bottom is so big that getting it actually makes up for letting white have more points on the left side. Given that they're the same point-wise, I'm going to opt for the line of play that is the least risky. Or at least, I think I've read it out well enough that I can predict that white will just pull back. If I screwed this up and white can capture it, I'm in some deep trouble.

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Offline Aphelion
 Post subject: Re: 63. Kerby (2k) vs. Numsgil (6k)
Post #92 Posted: Tue Sep 07, 2010 8:16 pm 
Lives in sente
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KGS: Aphelion02
This is White's chance, I think. Even if Black's reduction was a mistake (which I am not convinced of), it can't be allowed to simply die like this. Black should make something out of it, at the very minimum something like this:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm69 Move 69 Captures: W: 2 B: 1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . . . . . O . X . . . X . . X . . |
$$ | . . . X X X O . . , . . . . X X O . . |
$$ | . . O O O O . . . X . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O X . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X . O . . . X X . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . X O O , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . B . . . . . . . . O O X . . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . X O , X . . O . O . . . O O , O . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . O . O X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


In no way can Black simply "treat that stone as a forcing move". That's fear talking. Forcing moves should be exchanges that benefit you, and shouldn't be rendered completely meaningless (in fact giving White huge territory) if you tenuki. Now I think White can play something like this and suddenly make this game much closer:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm69 Move 69 Captures: W: 2 B: 1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . . . . . O . X . . . X . . X . . |
$$ | . . . X X X O . . , . . . . X X O . . |
$$ | . . O O O O . . . X . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O X . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X . O . . . X X . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . X O O , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X . . . |
$$ | . O . . . 4 . . . . . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . X O , X . . O . O . . . O O , O . . |
$$ | . . X . . . 3 1 2 . . . O . O X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Edit:

I just took a look Num's variations in more detail and I think he doesn't realize how big of a threat that Black stone is if it can escape clean. White can't take sente in this variation:


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . b . . . . b . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . b . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | b X b . b . . O . X . . . X . . X . . |
$$ | . . . X X X O . . b . . . . X X O . . |
$$ | . . O O O O . . . X . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . w . . . O X . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . . w . . . O . b . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . w . . . . . . b . . b w O . . |
$$ | . . . . w . X . 1 . . . X X . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O w . . . . , . . X O O w . . . |
$$ | . . . . w . 2 . . . . . X . . w . . . |
$$ | . . . w w . . 6 . . . . . O O X . . . |
$$ | . O . . w . 3 4 . 8 . X . . . w . . . |
$$ | O . O w 7 . . 5 . . . . . . . w . . . |
$$ | w O X X . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | b X O , X . w O w O w w . O O , O w w |
$$ | . . X . 0 9 . . . . . . O . O X X b b |
$$ | . . . . b w . . . . . . . O X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . b w . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Something like this can destroy the entire left, and I don't even think my variation is the most vicous:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . . . . . O . X . . . X . . X . . |
$$ | . . . X X X O . . , . . . . X X O . . |
$$ | . 5 O O O O . . 3 X . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . 4 . . . . . . O X . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . 2 . O . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . 6 . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X . O . . . X X . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . X O O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X . . . . . O O X . . . |
$$ | . O . . . . O X . X . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | O . O . O . . O . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . X O , X . . O . O . . . O O , O . . |
$$ | . . X . . 1 . . . . . . O . O X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
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Offline Kerby
 Post subject: Re: 63. Kerby (2k) vs. Numsgil (6k)
Post #93 Posted: Thu Sep 09, 2010 2:20 pm 
Dies with sente
User avatar

Posts: 95
Location: Canada
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Was liked: 3
Rank: KGS-AGA-CGA all 2k
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm70 Move 70 Captures: W: 2 B: 1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . . . . . O . X . . . X . . X . . |
$$ | . . . X X X O . . , . . . . X X O . . |
$$ | . . O O O O . . . X . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O X . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X . O . . . X X . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . X O O , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X . . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . X O , X . . O . O . . . O O , O . . |
$$ | . . X . . . 1 X . . . . O . O X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I want sente so that I can attack his lone invasion stone, and make territory on the left side. I'll aim for this:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . . . . . O . X . . . X . . X . . |
$$ | . . . X X X O . . , . . . . X X O . . |
$$ | . . O O O O . . . X . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O X . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X . O . . . X X . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . X O O , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X . . . |
$$ | . O . . 5 . . . . . . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . X O , X . 3 O . O . . . O O , O . . |
$$ | . . X . . . 1 X . . . . O . O X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . 4 2 . . . . . . O X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


If he tries to run I will fight:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . . . . . O . X . . . X . . X . . |
$$ | . . . X X X O . . , . . . . X X O . . |
$$ | . . O O O O . . . X . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O X . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X . O . . . X X . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . X O O , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . 1 . 2 . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X . . . |
$$ | . O . . O . 3 . . . . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | O . O . . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . X O , X . O O . O . . . O O , O . . |
$$ | . . X . . . O X . . . . O . O X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . X X . . . . . . O X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . . . . . O . X . . . X . . X . . |
$$ | . . . X X X O . . , . . . . X X O . . |
$$ | . . O O O O . . . X . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O X . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X . O . . . X X . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . 2 . . , . . X O O , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . 1 . . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X . . . |
$$ | . O . . O . . . . . . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . X O , X . O O . O . . . O O , O . . |
$$ | . . X . . . O X . . . . O . O X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . X X . . . . . . O X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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Offline Numsgil
 Post subject: Re: 63. Kerby (2k) vs. Numsgil (6k)
Post #94 Posted: Thu Sep 09, 2010 6:25 pm 
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Rank: 1 Kyu KGS
KGS: Numsgil
I'll move a bit later tonight.

In the mean time...
Strategy and Thoughts
Okay white, that wasn't a bluff, so let's hope for your sake you just read better and black 69 was an overplay.

If I manage to make these stones live every point of territory I make is worth like 4 points (1 point for territory, 1 point for robbing territory, 1 point for black stones on top of what was once white territory, one point for white stones on top of what was once white territory). The game was close enough if white drew back that it was still playable for either side. This seems like a move of desperation, but a desperation play isn't necessarily backed up by the score. If my stones live here, it goes from close to white at a distinct disadvantage/outright losing. On the other hand, if I lose these stones, I'm out lots of points but I should end in sente (die in sente) and should be able to make up many of the points elsewhere. I'll be losing on the board but it should be outright terminal mistake time.

...

Okay, so I have to do some really serious reading to find a reasonable sequence. I feel like I should be able to live, and white will get thickness facing the center. Thickness won't be worth very much since there's nothing there to attack and it doesn't really close the open boundaries of the moyo. Good for black.


Tactics and Variations
This is the sort of sequence, where white just descends, that I need to spend some time thinking about.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X . . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . X O , X . . O . O . . . O O , O . . |
$$ | . . X . . . O X 1 . . . O . O X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . 2 . . . . . . O X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Crosscut also is worth thinking about, but again the descent is troublesome.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X . . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . X O , X . 1 O . O . . . O O , O . . |
$$ | . . X . . . O X . . . . O . O X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . 2 . . . . . . O X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Stealing the descent (the opponent's good move may be my good move) gets complicated really fast, since it allows for kos and sacrifice tactics for either side.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X . . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X X . . . 0 a . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . X O , X . 7 O 9 O . . . O O , O . . |
$$ | . . X . . 5 O X 3 . . . O . O X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . 4 1 2 . . . . . O X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . 6 . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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Offline Numsgil
 Post subject: Re: 63. Kerby (2k) vs. Numsgil (6k)
Post #95 Posted: Thu Sep 09, 2010 10:34 pm 
Lives in gote
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Posts: 614
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Rank: 1 Kyu KGS
KGS: Numsgil
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm71 Move 71 Captures: W: 2 B: 1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . . . . . O . X . . . X . . X . . |
$$ | . . . X X X O . . , . . . . X X O . . |
$$ | . . O O O O . . . X . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O X . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X . O . . . X X . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . X O O , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X . . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . X O , X . 1 O . O . . . O O , O . . |
$$ | . . X . . . O X . . . . O . O X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Strategy and Thoughts
Bottom line: one way or another, white is screwed. I think. Grr reading.


Tactics and Variations
I don't see how white can prevent either life or connecting out for black's group. There are too many variations to list them all, but here's what I consider to be the "main" line:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X . . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X X . . . 4 6 . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . X O , X . 1 O 3 O 8 . . O O , O . . |
$$ | . . X . . . O X 5 7 . . O . O X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . 2 . . . . 9 . O X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


'a' and 'b' become miai for either connecting out or making life, respectively.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X . . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X X . . . O O . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . X O , X . X O X O O . . O O , O . . |
$$ | . . X . . a O X X X 1 . O . O X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O 5 4 3 2 X . O X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . 6 . b . . . X . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


This way leads to a liberty race. Black is leading.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X . . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X X . . . O O . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . X O , X . X O X O O . . O O , O . . |
$$ | . . X . . 6 O X X X 1 . O . O X X . . |
$$ | . . . . 8 7 O 5 3 4 2 X . O X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


There are some other choices for moves further up the chain (different choice for two in the first diagram), but they're either easy to refute or actually end in sente for black, which probably isn't what white is aiming for. I wouldn't mind something like this, certainly (notice I get to play 5 as a tenuki). Although if it actually goes this way I might see if I can't find a better sequence. But I doubt white will play this way.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . X O , X . 1 O . O . . . O O , O . . |
$$ | . . X . . 3 O X 2 . . . O . O X X . . |
$$ | . . . 9 7 6 . 4 . . . . . O X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . 8 . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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Offline Kerby
 Post subject: Re: 63. Kerby (2k) vs. Numsgil (6k)
Post #96 Posted: Sun Sep 12, 2010 10:06 am 
Dies with sente
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Posts: 95
Location: Canada
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Rank: KGS-AGA-CGA all 2k
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm72 Move 72 Captures: W: 2 B: 1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . . . . . O . X . . . X . . X . . |
$$ | . . . X X X O . . , . . . . X X O . . |
$$ | . . O O O O . . . X . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O X . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X . O . . . X X . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . X O O , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X . . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . X O , X . X O . O . . . O O , O . . |
$$ | . . X . . . O X 1 . . . O . O X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I am not going to give him more 4th line territory. He is creating a group to easily run to. His aims must be to reduce my left side more. We'll see where he goes next

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"You always have more ko threats then me" -Dusk Eagle
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Offline Numsgil
 Post subject: Re: 63. Kerby (2k) vs. Numsgil (6k)
Post #97 Posted: Sun Sep 12, 2010 3:01 pm 
Lives in gote
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Rank: 1 Kyu KGS
KGS: Numsgil
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm73 Move 73 Captures: W: 2 B: 1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . . . . . O . X . . . X . . X . . |
$$ | . . . X X X O . . , . . . . X X O . . |
$$ | . . O O O O . . . X . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O X . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X . O . . . X X . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . X O O , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X . . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . X O , X . X O . O . . . O O , O . . |
$$ | . . X . . . O X O . . . O . O X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . 1 . . . . . O X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Strategy and Thoughts
White is getting in to the annoying habit of making moves I specifically don't think he will.


Tactics and Variations
This is the best sequence I can see. Increase the sacrifice (increase the liberty count of the stones to be sacrificed) so I can make extra moves on the outside. And I get sente out of the whole thing. cha-ching.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X . . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X X . . . 3 . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . X O , X . X O 4 O . . . O O , O . . |
$$ | . . X . . 5 O X O . . . O . O X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . 7 2 1 6 . . . . O X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . 8 . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


The '3' stone above really aggressively destroys white's moyo. The ladder doesn't work for white, so I don't think I even need to defend right away. Tenuki and take sente.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X . . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . . 9 . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | O . O . . . . 3 5 8 0 . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X X . . 1 X 4 6 7 . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . X O , X 2 X O O O . . . O O , O . . |
$$ | . . X . . X O C O . . . O . O X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . X O C O . . . . O X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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Offline Kerby
 Post subject: Re: 63. Kerby (2k) vs. Numsgil (6k)
Post #98 Posted: Mon Sep 13, 2010 1:33 pm 
Dies with sente
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Posts: 95
Location: Canada
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Was liked: 3
Rank: KGS-AGA-CGA all 2k
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm74 Move 74 Captures: W: 2 B: 1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . . . . . O . X . . . X . . X . . |
$$ | . . . X X X O . . , . . . . X X O . . |
$$ | . . O O O O . . . X . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O X . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X . O . . . X X . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . X O O , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X . . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . X O , X . X O . O . . . O O , O . . |
$$ | . . X . . 1 O X O . . . O . O X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X . . . . . O X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I assume this next:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm74 Move 74 Captures: W: 2 B: 1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . . . . . O . X . . . X . . X . . |
$$ | . . . X X X O . . , . . . . X X O . . |
$$ | . . O O O O . . . X . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O X . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X . O . . . X X . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . X O O , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X . . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X X . . . 2 . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . X O , X 4 X O 3 O . . . O O , O . . |
$$ | . . X . 6 1 O X O . . . O . O X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . 7 X 5 . . . . O X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

_________________
"You always have more ko threats then me" -Dusk Eagle
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Offline Numsgil
 Post subject: Re: 63. Kerby (2k) vs. Numsgil (6k)
Post #99 Posted: Mon Sep 13, 2010 2:13 pm 
Lives in gote
User avatar

Posts: 614
Liked others: 28
Was liked: 65
Rank: 1 Kyu KGS
KGS: Numsgil
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm75 Move 75 Captures: W: 2 B: 1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . . . . . O . X . . . X . . X . . |
$$ | . . . X X X O . . , . . . . X X O . . |
$$ | . . O O O O . . . X . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O X . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X . O . . . X X . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . X O O , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X . . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . X O , X 1 X O . O . . . O O , O . . |
$$ | . . X . . O O X O . . . O . O X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X . . . . . O X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Strategy and Thoughts
Oops, I don't think I thought about this possibility at all.

I think I can still sacrifice, but I have to give white more of the side territory. I might also be able to treat the entire side lightly and use some threats to dig in to the territory on the bottom right. I might also be able to just make a fight of it and save the stones I was going to sacrifice, but I need to check to see if doing so is actually a good idea (ie: does what white gains in the center more than make up for it?)


Tactics and Variations A
Let's examine the most exciting possibility: can I save the stones?

Below: While 1 steals a liberty from white and gives a liberty to black, 2 does the same back, and black can't squirm effectively enough to gain enough liberties to capture. So the stones are still definitely dead (unless there's a tesuji I don't see).
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . X O , X 9 X O . O . . . O O , O . . |
$$ | . . X . . O O X O . . . O . O X X . . |
$$ | . . . 0 8 2 1 X 3 4 . . . O X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . 7 . . . 5 6 . . . . X . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Tactics and Variations B
Can I still sacrifice reasonably well? I think so. There's some aji for both sides, though, so it's not a comfortable position.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | O . O . . . 7 . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X X . 5 6 1 . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . X O , X 4 X O 2 O . . . O O , O . . |
$$ | . . X . 3 O O X O . . . O . O X X . . |
$$ | . . . 9 8 . . X . . . . . O X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . 0 . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


White can't play like this:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . X O , X 1 X O . O . . . O O , O . . |
$$ | . . X 5 2 O O X O . . . O . O X X . . |
$$ | . . 9 6 8 4 3 X . . . . . O X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . 7 . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


So something like this instead, maybe. White gets a lot of the side, and has prospects for more because of the open skirt, but I have sente so I can decide whether I want to defend with something like 'a' or if I want to do something in the middle. There's less aji for either side this way then in the first diagram I gave, so I'm going to go this way (keeps the game simpler). This is giving up a lot of the territory I wanted, but I guess the attachment I did originally was an overplay. Sort of frustrating really. But I knew going in to this game that these sorts of tactical gaffs would lose me points.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X X . . . 5 . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . X O , X 1 X O . O . . . O O , O . . |
$$ | . . X . 3 O O C O . . . O . O X X . . |
$$ | . . . . a . 4 C 2 . . . . O X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . 6 . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Tactics and Variations C
Can I be super sneaky with my play and try something he won't be expecting? Like invading on the other side now?

Something like this seems to work to get black enough liberties to capture white on the left, so it seems promising so far.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . X O , X 7 X O 6 O 2 . . O O , O . . |
$$ | . . X . . O O X O 5 1 4 O . O X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X 3 . . . . O X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Something like this doesn't seem to go anywhere, though.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X . . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X X . . . . . 5 4 6 . . . O . . . |
$$ | . X O , X . X O . O 3 . . O O , O . . |
$$ | . . X . . O O X O . 1 . O . O X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X 2 . . . . O X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Neither does this way.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X . . . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | O . O . . . . . . . . 9 8 0 . . . . . |
$$ | . O X X . . . . . . 6 4 5 . . O . . . |
$$ | . X O , X . X O . O . 3 7 O O , O . . |
$$ | . . X . . O O X O . 1 . O . O X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X 2 . . . . O X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


So I'm going to conclude that maybe there's something that could be done here, but it's way out of my depth.


Tactics and Variations Conclusion
I'm going to stick with the strategy of using the stones as a sacrifice to secure the side boundary and gain some center influence to limit white's moyo there.

_________________
1k KGS
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Offline Kerby
 Post subject: Re: 63. Kerby (2k) vs. Numsgil (6k)
Post #100 Posted: Thu Sep 16, 2010 5:26 pm 
Dies with sente
User avatar

Posts: 95
Location: Canada
Liked others: 0
Was liked: 3
Rank: KGS-AGA-CGA all 2k
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm76 Move 76 Captures: W: 2 B: 1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . . . . . O . X . . . X . . X . . |
$$ | . . . X X X O . . , . . . . X X O . . |
$$ | . . O O O O . . . X . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O X . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X . O . . . X X . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . X O O , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X . . . |
$$ | . O . . 1 . . . . . . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . X O , X X X O . O . . . O O , O . . |
$$ | . . X . . O O X O . . . O . O X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X . . . . . O X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Changed my mind. If he wants to score the 12ish points on the bottom in gote he can have them. I'm not going to give up initiative to get them at this point. This would be horrible for him:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X . . . . . O . X . . . X . . X . . |
$$ | . . . X X X O . . , . . . . X X O . . |
$$ | . . O O O O . . . X . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O X . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . X . O . . . X X . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . X O O , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . 3 . . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X . . . |
$$ | . O . . 1 . . . . . . X . . . . . . . |
$$ | O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . X O , X X X O . O . . . O O , O . . |
$$ | . . X . 2 O O X O . . . O . O X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . X . . . . . O X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

_________________
"You always have more ko threats then me" -Dusk Eagle
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