black was overextending here and there and now i refuse to accept it anymore . if he wants to fight, i don't mind.
otherwise, black's move has an advantage over my proposed N7 in that it serves the same purpose and also looks down to my opened right side. however, it is thinner, so i cut
i believe i can play like this. 7 is not sure but looks natural. i will have to watch out for black atari at a, threating a shortage of my liberties and eventually resurrecting two marked black stones. on the other hand, black will have to invest one move to secure the lower side
by the way, sometimes i have to ask myself "what would Magicwand do?", because looking at the lower side, i feel there should be some nice and easy way for white to do something nasty, but none of my ideas seemed to work.
Dusk Eagle: clearly Bill didn't talk about the actual game, or were there so far any moves one could describe as vulgar?
observers: thank you for so many comments, i am looking forward to read them after the game
above diag is clearly better for white. but i would never play that because i am afraid black might play as below which will solidify bottom without any chance of invasion which is terriorable for white. again...i am not saying my idea is better. i am only displaying how i think differently. (given that i am a stronger player means that there are good chance that my view has some merit)
We don't know who we are; we don't know where we are.
Each of us woke up one moment and here we were in the darkness.
We're nameless things with no memory; no knowledge of what went before,
No understanding of what is now, no knowledge of what will be.
[go]$$Bcm1 Move #47, B+1 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O O X O . . . . O . . X . . . . | $$ | . . X X O O . . . , . . . . . , X . . | $$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O B . O . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . X O O . O . . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . X O O X . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . X . X O X . . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . X . X O O . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . X X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
I can definitely not play any other move.
I'm rather surprised he's chosen to cut immediately. I don't have much of a clue about how he plans to proceed from here, so I can't really say too much more about this position. I'll see how he decides to play first.
We don't know who we are; we don't know where we are.
Each of us woke up one moment and here we were in the darkness.
We're nameless things with no memory; no knowledge of what went before,
No understanding of what is now, no knowledge of what will be.
[go]$$Bcm1 Move #49, B+1 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O O X O . . . . O . . X . . . . | $$ | . . X X O O . . . , . . . . . , X . . | $$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . O . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . O X O O . O . . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . B X O O X . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . X . X O X . . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . X . X O O . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . X X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Obviously.
We don't know who we are; we don't know where we are.
Each of us woke up one moment and here we were in the darkness.
We're nameless things with no memory; no knowledge of what went before,
No understanding of what is now, no knowledge of what will be.
[go]$$Bcm1 Move #50, B+1 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O O X O . . . . O . . X . . . . | $$ | . . X X O O . . . , . . . . . , X . . | $$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . W X . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . O . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . O X O O . O . . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . X X O O X . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . X . X O X . . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . X . X O O . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . X X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
so far no problem. we will see what comes next. black can also try other moves than b O9 i showed in previous comment - b hane N9, but it goes bad after w cut O9. more interesting is b Q9, but i shoul be able to handle it by w P8 or maybe again O9 - it looks really like a key point
[go]$$Bcm1 Move #51, B+1 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O O X O . . . . O . . X . . . . | $$ | . . X X O O . . . , . . . . . , X . . | $$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . B . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . O . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . O X O O . O . . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . X X O O X . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . X . X O X . . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . X . X O O . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . X X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
No other choices for this move either. The hane clearly doesn't work, and playing the atari only eats up a valuable liberty for me, when there's no rush to play it. Letting me get the turn of below seems too big, so he'll probably push again on his next move.
$$Bcm1 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O O X O . . . . O . . X . . . . | $$ | . . X X O O . . . , . . . . . , X . . | $$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . B X . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . O . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . O X O O . O . . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . X X O O X . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . X . X O X . . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . X . X O O . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . X X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------
[go]$$Bcm1 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O O X O . . . . O . . X . . . . | $$ | . . X X O O . . . , . . . . . , X . . | $$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . B X . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . O . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . O X O O . O . . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . X X O O X . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . X . X O X . . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . X . X O O . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . X X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
As long as he's pushing from behind, I should have nothing to worry about.
We don't know who we are; we don't know where we are.
Each of us woke up one moment and here we were in the darkness.
We're nameless things with no memory; no knowledge of what went before,
No understanding of what is now, no knowledge of what will be.
[go]$$Bcm1 Move #50, B+1 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O O X O . . . . O . . X . . . . | $$ | . . X X O O . . . , . . . . . , X . . | $$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . W X . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . O . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . O X O O . O . . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . X X O O X . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . X . X O X . . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . X . X O O . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . X X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
so far no problem. we will see what comes next. black can also try other moves than b O9 i showed in previous comment - b hane N9, but it goes bad after w cut O9. more interesting is b Q9, but i shoul be able to handle it by w P8 or maybe again O9 - it looks really like a key point
@Laman:
Why not the simple connection at M7? He is one move ahead of you in a running fight.
[go]$$Bcm1 Move #52, B+1 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O O X O . . . . O . . X . . . . | $$ | . . X X O O . . . , . . . . . , X . . | $$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . X . W . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . O . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . O X O O . O . . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . X X O O X . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . X . X O X . . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . X . X O O . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . X X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
here ends my sequence from previous diagram. i went through possible continuations that time but didn't save them, so now i had to reconstruct them again...
most reasonable moves for black now are cut or bend:
$$Bcm1 Diagram 1 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O O X O . . . . O . . X . . . . | $$ | . . X X O O . . . , . . . . . , X . . | $$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . 4 . . , . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . X . W . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . b 2 O X . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . 3 1 O X . O . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . a O X O O . O . . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . X X O O X . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . X . X O X . . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . X . X O O . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . X X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------
[go]$$Bcm1 Diagram 2 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O O X O . . . . O . . X . . . . | $$ | . . X X O O . . . , . . . . . , X . . | $$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . 1 X . W . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . 2 . O X . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . O . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . O X O O . O . . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . X X O O X . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . X . X O X . . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . X . X O O . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . X X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
diagram 2 looks even or maybe better for me, both my and black groups are floating and my group can make some shape (while black has easier escape route)
diagram 1 worries me more, it looks almost as if i made all this fuss only to fail... i can eat three black stones but black almost secure very big lower side. if black tried to run with his stones and escape, i believe it would give me more profit than if he abandom them directly
i feel that i have worse position than black, yet i cannot see any move better than those i played - at least it will be good game for a review and study
Joaz Banbeck:
Joaz Banbeck wrote:@Laman: Why not the simple connection at M7? He is one move ahead of you in a running fight.
you shouldn't ask such questions before i make the move
but i think that black would cause me more troubles on the right side than those i will experience in the center, devastating my side territory and cutting of my R12 stone while my four stones in the center still achieved nothing
$$Bcm1 Diagram 3 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O O X O . . . . O . . X . . . . | $$ | . . X X O O . . . , . . . . . , X . . | $$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , a . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . X . 6 5 8 . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O X 7 3 4 . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . W O X 1 O 0 . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . O X O O 2 O 9 . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . X X O O X . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . X . X O X . . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . X . X O O . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . X X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------
Hey Laman, it's really crunch time for me with my exams (one tomorrow, one Saturday, and one Monday) so just understand that if I post less frequently than usual .
$$Bcm1 Move #53, B+1 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O O X O . . . . O . . X . . . . | $$ | . . X X O O . . . , . . . . . , X . . | $$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . B X . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . O . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . O X O O . O . . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . X X O O X . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . X . X O X . . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . X . X O O . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . X X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------
[go]$$Bcm1 Move #53, B+1 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O O X O . . . . O . . X . . . . | $$ | . . X X O O . . . , . . . . . , X . . | $$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . B X . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . O . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . O X O O . O . . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . X X O O X . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . X . X O X . . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . X . X O O . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . X X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Yeah, his last move seemed pretty necessary to prevent me from squeezing him terribly (which he probably showed you). But now I get this large turn on his group.
I'm not sure if this move is tactically the best, but I'm more confident in it being correct than any other move I could try.
I'm behind on territory at this point, so I must actively seek profit in this fight ahead of us. I don't think I'm in a bad position, I just can't be looking to quickly settle all our shapes and get to yose. If I am aggressive and if I can harass his groups for profit, I should be fine. I bet I'll be able to find some exploitable aji in his right-side group later on, even after his last move.
We don't know who we are; we don't know where we are.
Each of us woke up one moment and here we were in the darkness.
We're nameless things with no memory; no knowledge of what went before,
No understanding of what is now, no knowledge of what will be.
[go]$$Bcm1 Diagram 1 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O O X O . . . . O . . X . . . . | $$ | . . X X O O . . . , . . . . . , X . . | $$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . a 1 X X . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . W 2 O X . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . O . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . c . O X O O . O . . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . b b . X X O O X . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . X . X O X . . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . X . X O O . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . X X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
a would allow me to apply some more light pressure on black floating group and after c i believe black couldn't completely prevent me from breaking into lower side. if black decides to cut me instead of 1, i am also ok:
$$Bcm1 Diagram 2 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O O X O . . . . O . . X . . . . | $$ | . . X X O O . . . , . . . . . , X . . | $$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . X X . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . 8 W 2 O X . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . 4 3 1 O X . O . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . 6 5 O X O O . O . . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . . 7 . X X O O X . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . X . X O X . . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . X . X O O . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . X X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------
I did. I quoted you playing N8, and suggested that M7 might have been better..AFTER you had played N8.
ah, so. then it makes much more sense. i was thinking about my next move so for some reason i wrongly assumed you were talking about it. black would have it more difficult to make some mischief on the right indeed...
$$Bcm1 Diagram 1 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O O X O . . . . O . . X . . . . | $$ | . . X X O O . . . , . . . . . , X . . | $$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . 8 7 . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X 9 3 4 . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . W O X 1 O 6 . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . O X O O 2 O 5 . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . X X O O X 0 . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . X . X O X . . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . X . X O O . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . X X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------
. if he wants to fight, i don't mind.
below seems too big, so he'll probably push again on his next move.