87: ketchup (3k) vs. Kayres (2k)

ketchup · Post by **ketchup** » Thu Dec 23, 2010 5:37 pm

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$c Captures: B:0 W:0 Move 10 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . 0 . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . O , X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . X . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Kayres · Post by **Kayres** » Fri Dec 24, 2010 11:17 am

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$c Captures: B:0 W:0 Move 11 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . O , X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . B . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . X . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Hmm.. I needed to think a lot about this here.. What I was expecting was this joseki, where white first makes the marked exchange:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wc Captures: B:0 W:0 Move 10 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 6 8 . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . 9 . . . . 7 1 2 . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . O 3 X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Q Y . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , P . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . X . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

This way I would have sente, he would have nice influence on top with a bit of territory. Although his influence could be in a better position, e.g. when the open side of my komoku was facing it, I think this is still good for white.

Normally I don't like this for black but it seemed okay to me. I think the best thing here for me would be that I have sente + I put a little bit more pressure on :wx:

.

I knew this joseki, it's an easy one, but what made me think more deeply is the exchange you do first before you attach underneath the komoku. Why do you do this? This is a very important point. Memorizing joseki is a good thing, because it can help you learn good shapes. But since I only memorized it, I now do not know why you would play this exchange first. So I needed to think.

I came to the conclusion that it should prevent me from jumping. If I jumped when he played the kikashi against my 2-space extension, it would look like this:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wc Captures: B:0 W:0 Move 10 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . b . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . 7 . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . O , X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 5 . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 3 X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 6 . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . c , O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 8 . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . X . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . @ . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

I would not be able to jump here. And I am sure he could get the corner easily with something like 7 or even b. Although I can attack his stone on the right side fiercely now, I don't like this position. It seems that he got too much. And he can still escape with c or the like if I tried to attack it. This seems good, no discussion. But his corner seems also really big. And :ws:

is still not dead yet imo.

So actually all he gave me was the opportunity to decide between two options for me.
Jumping, with a follow-up like here:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wc Captures: B:0 W:0 Move 10 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . O , X 1 . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 3 . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . B . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . 6 . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . X . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Or, jumping, and then him playing the kikashi:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wc Captures: B:0 W:0 Move 10 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . O , X a . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . b 1 3 4 . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . B 2 X 6 . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . X . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Now this looks a bit better for me. I have techniques around a or I even get some really nice outside moves with b or similiar.

This is the other option, but I thought I would be too low afterwards to attack :ws:

. It seemed to slow and soft.

I even thought that he could play something like d first to threaten to connect with @, and then play 4, or even completely omit 4.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bc Captures: B:0 W:0 Move 10 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . 4 . . . . 2 O 1 . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . O , X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . d . . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , @ . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . X . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

But I think I am not in a position I should be sad about to be in

I hope my explanations are alright. If it is too much, please tell me. Or just say whatever you want about it. Gimme the critcism! :rambo:

ketchup · Post by **ketchup** » Fri Dec 24, 2010 4:31 pm

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$cm11 Captures: B:0 W:0 Move 12 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . O , X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . X . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Kayres · Post by **Kayres** » Sat Dec 25, 2010 10:41 am

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$c Captures: B:0 W:0 Move 13 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . O , X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X B . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . X . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Ok. I am NOT suprised.
..
k now seriously where is the hidden camera.when I first saw this move I was like :scratch:

I guess by now you could say that he is in an experimentation-phase.

This move does not feel really good, it feels more like an emergency plan you have to play when you do not have any other choices left. What he is aiming for is clear, he wants to settle his right group.
I guess he is aiming for this exchange:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bc Captures: B:0 W:0 Move 12 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . O , X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O 2 . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X 1 . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . X . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Now you can call it a "group". But to me it does not seem to be settled yet.. I can still try to separate it later on. And even if I should not be able to do that, I have a nice position on bottom left and on top right.

I often get to play such games. And what I do here is I try to make small but solid steps and stay patient and calm. I believe that there is a certain balance and flow in a game that can be destroyed very easily. You can imagine that as building trust for the goban, and if you are too greedy or disappoint the flow and balance, things won't turn out very well in the end.

I looked into several moves here, like these:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$c Captures: B:0 W:0 Move 12 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . O , X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O a . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . X . b c . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

a seems quite alright, you usually try to hane when your opponent attaches, but it kind of felt too immature at this state of the game. And white also gets an opportunity to cross-cut, where his corner stone is helping him much better than my keima on the left.

b seemed very solid, it had a good feeling too. But you would usually play this if your group is in acute danger or you have to run while protecting any cuts. It also gave him some sente when he tries to connect underneath.

c seemed interesting to me.. actually I was thinking about whether I should play c or the move i made. It obviously aims to hurt his corner a bit more. But I did not like the aji it could set up later..

So I decided to play a, maybe slow, but patient nobi. I will have sente then and I can play the big move on top right. If he plays a tenuki after my nobi, I will follow him and see where he will lead me to.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wc Captures: B:0 W:0 Move 12 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . O 2 . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . O , X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O 1 . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X B . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . X . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

I feel comfortable at this stage of the game so I won't be aggressive or too active. Let's give him what he wants and see what his plans are.

ketchup · Post by **ketchup** » Sat Dec 25, 2010 2:43 pm

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$cm11 Captures: B:0 W:0 Move 14 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . O , X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . 4 , O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . X . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

This is my style. To live with all(in sente!), to try to kill everything else

Also, next move once I get the chance has to be(for me) at p4(see below).

I was thinking about which move to go: the reinforcement/ pressure on the right side(if possible), or the reinforcement for the bottom group. At the moment though, reinforcing the right side has more merit than the bottom. The right side getting stronger for white hurts all the groups around the area(maybe even my own! hah). Reinforcing my bottom stone, makes it so that it hurts my own stones more than anything else for solid "profit". Due to this, it feels too early to do so. I think there will be a timing when I can say "Okay, that's settled, let me FINALLY play this move". If I played at p4 now, I think this is the best way for black to play, and it does not look so good for white at all, especially if you consider I'd lose sente for white's life/safety(cut at a).

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wc $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . O , X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 X X . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . a X 1 , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 3 . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Kayres · Post by **Kayres** » Sun Dec 26, 2010 9:47 am

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$c Captures: B:0 W:0 Move 15 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . O B . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . O , X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . O , O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . X . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

ketchup · Post by **ketchup** » Sun Dec 26, 2010 4:15 pm

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$m11c Captures: B:0 W:0 Move 16 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . 6 O X . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . O , X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . O , O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . X . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Kayres · Post by **Kayres** » Sun Dec 26, 2010 4:47 pm

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$m Captures: B:0 W:0 Move 17 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . O O X . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . O , X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . B . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . O , O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . X . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Alright let's see what he does. I did not want to tenuki because he has a good follow up there somehow. I want to see if he concludes to joseki with a. I don't think so though. But this will help me later.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$m11c Captures: B:0 W:0 Move 16 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . a . . . . O O X . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . O , X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . B . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . O , O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . X . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

ketchup · Post by **ketchup** » Sun Dec 26, 2010 6:56 pm

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$m11 Captures: B:0 W:0 Move 18 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . 8 . . . O O X . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . O , X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . O , O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . X . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Aphelion · Post by **Aphelion** » Sun Dec 26, 2010 7:40 pm

To Ketchup:

ketchup · Post by **ketchup** » Sun Dec 26, 2010 9:47 pm

Aphelion wrote:To Ketchup:
Ketchup wrote:
It's not that the positions are ALL that terrible, it's more that I dislike playing moves like these.

Seems that you dislike honte

Aphelion/kibitz:

Kayres · Post by **Kayres** » Mon Dec 27, 2010 5:16 am

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$m Captures: B:0 W:0 Move 19 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . O . . . O O X . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . O , X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . O , O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . X . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . B . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Now let's see if he can live in the corner. If he does not want to, I think it's really big for me. However if he can live there, my outside will be very strong and I will be able to attack his group on the right severely. With my last move, the bottom also starts to look interesting for me.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wc Captures: B:0 W:0 Move 18 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . O . . . O O X . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . O , X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . O , O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X 2 . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . X . , . 1 . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . c . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . B b . . a . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

I think this is the best way he can play here. maybe exchanging b with c first. Looks like an interesting tsumego for me

. I don't want to kill him no matter what, I just aim to get influence. And it looks like I will get it both on the right side and on the bottom.

ketchup · Post by **ketchup** » Mon Dec 27, 2010 5:33 pm

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$m11 Captures: B:0 W:0 Move 20 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . O . . . O O X . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . O , X . . | $$ | . . 0 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . O , O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . X . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Kayres · Post by **Kayres** » Tue Dec 28, 2010 11:02 am

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$c Captures: B:0 W:0 Move 21 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . O . . . O O X . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . O , X . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . B . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . O , O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . X . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

oh..he gave up the corner? or maybe he will try to live later.. anyway, i will not spent a move on bottom right if he does not of course. My next goal is to prevent w from having a bigger moyo which i would have to invade. I think i just need to keep it simple. and besides, I hate invading ;D. so the pincer here is natural. he won't push me down on top and I will make it hard for him to develop anything promosing on the left side. And still, something like a looks so nice for me.

And soon, but I think the timing is immensely important here, I will place b or something similiar. It's not that I want to capture his stones, I think that's not possible. But I will threaten to and make profit. But this is for later anyway.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$m11 Captures: B:0 W:0 Move 21 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . O . . . O O X . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . O , X . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . B . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . O , O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . b . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . X . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . a . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

ketchup · Post by **ketchup** » Tue Dec 28, 2010 5:31 pm

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$cm21 Captures: B:0 W:0 Move 22 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . O . . . O O X . | $$ | . . . , 2 . . . . , . . . . O , X . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . O , O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . X . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

This looks about right for what I want this game to go towards. Well, honestly, it's more like I can't think of any move other that might give me an interesting game here. I've always wanted to try this, and for some odd reason, I PREFER this for white. I also think the pincer(or honestly any pincer) here will lead to interesting positions for white over all. I'm hoping that this move at 22 will give me an advantage to push black around with.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$cm21 Captures: B:0 W:0 Move 22 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X 3 5 . 7 . . . O . . . O O X . | $$ | . . . , 2 4 6 . . , . . . . O , X . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . 8 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . O , O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . X . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Life In 19x19

87: ketchup (3k) vs. Kayres (2k)

Re: 87: ketchup (3k) vs. Kayres (2k)

Re: 87: ketchup (3k) vs. Kayres (2k)

Re: 87: ketchup (3k) vs. Kayres (2k)

Re: 87: ketchup (3k) vs. Kayres (2k)

Re: 87: ketchup (3k) vs. Kayres (2k)

Re: 87: ketchup (3k) vs. Kayres (2k)

Re: 87: ketchup (3k) vs. Kayres (2k)

Re: 87: ketchup (3k) vs. Kayres (2k)

Re: 87: ketchup (3k) vs. Kayres (2k)

Re: 87: ketchup (3k) vs. Kayres (2k)

Re: 87: ketchup (3k) vs. Kayres (2k)

Re: 87: ketchup (3k) vs. Kayres (2k)

Re: 87: ketchup (3k) vs. Kayres (2k)

Re: 87: ketchup (3k) vs. Kayres (2k)

Re: 87: ketchup (3k) vs. Kayres (2k)