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Offline EdLee
 Post subject:
Post #21 Posted: Fri Dec 24, 2010 8:46 pm 
Honinbo
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Black Move 11: about both players' variations:
Mnemonic wrote:
I'm a bit afraid about this
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W
$$ . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . X . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . X 4 . . |
$$ . X . O . 2 1 7 . |
$$ . . . . 5 3 6 8 . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -------------------[/go]

Koroviev wrote:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bm11
$$ . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . X . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . X 3 . . |
$$ . X . O . 1 O . . |
$$ . . . . . 2 4 . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -------------------[/go]

After Black turns at 4, White makes the tiger's mouth with 5:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W
$$ . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . X . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . X 4 . . |
$$ . X . O . 2 1 6 . |
$$ . . . . . 3 7 5 . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -------------------[/go]
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Offline Mnemonic
 Post subject: Re: 89. Koroviev (12k) vs Mnemonic (11k)
Post #22 Posted: Sat Dec 25, 2010 9:35 am 
Lives in gote
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Rank: KGS 7 kyu
KGS: Mnemonic, dude13
@Observers (and Koroviev: let me know if you disagree)

I don't think that including move numbers in comments is giving away too much information. All they say is that the Observer thinks a particular move is interesting (whether good, bad, strange, ect. I have no clue), and if a move is worth commenting on, the player are probably already thinking about it. Plus, if a move is followed by a flurry of comments (without move numbers) the players usually know something’s up.
(Additionally: how are we to know that the hidden comments are actually talking about the move and are not just a red herring)
IMO labeling a comment is helpful, if it is done with some precaution (i. e. not during a game deciding life and death problem)

Edit: move coming so to a board near you

_________________
While I was teaching the game to a friend of mine, my mother from the other room:
"Cutting? Killing? Poking out eyes? What the hell are you playing?"
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Offline Mnemonic
 Post subject: Re: 89. Koroviev (12k) vs Mnemonic (11k)
Post #23 Posted: Sat Dec 25, 2010 9:57 am 
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Rank: KGS 7 kyu
KGS: Mnemonic, dude13
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm11 Prisoners: B: 0, W:0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . X . O . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

This is what I'm expecting. After that he will probably tenuki to the upper left.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 Joseki?
$$ . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . X . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . 7 . |
$$ . . . . . X a . . |
$$ . X . O 6 2 1 . . |
$$ . . . . 4 3 5 . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -------------------[/go]

He could play :b4: at a, but I'm pretty certain I can still live in the corner.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 I live
$$ . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . X . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . 9 . |
$$ . . . . . X 1 8 0 |
$$ . X . O b X O 2 . |
$$ . . . . 3 W . 5 6 |
$$ . . . . . . 4 7 . |
$$ -------------------[/go]

He also has a cutting point at b, which he should protect, so trying to kill me would be gote for him. I don't think he will play like this.
Below: I don't think that I'll gain anything from backing out of the corner. I'm still on the run and probably wasted some aji in the corner.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 Bad for white
$$ . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . X . . . |
$$ . 8 . 7 . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . X 4 . . |
$$ . X . O . 2 1 . . |
$$ . . . . 5 3 6 . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -------------------[/go]

_________________
While I was teaching the game to a friend of mine, my mother from the other room:
"Cutting? Killing? Poking out eyes? What the hell are you playing?"
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Offline Koroviev
 Post subject: Re: 89. Koroviev (12k) vs Mnemonic (11k)
Post #24 Posted: Sat Dec 25, 2010 4:39 pm 
Lives with ko

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Was liked: 35
Rank: 6k
Merry Christmas, all.

The two response I've been considering, with the initial responses I'm tentatively predicting:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm11 Prisoners: B: 0, W:0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . X . O 5 X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 2 4 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Or...

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm11 Prisoners: B: 0, W:0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X 3 . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . X . O . X O 5 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 6 4 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I can't really decide which of these outcomes is better for black. The second lets me keep sente, but perhaps leaves more aji. The first seems more secure, but is probably gote. Nothing ventured etc...I will go for the latter approach.


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm11 Prisoners: B: 0, W:0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X 3 . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . X . O . X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Regarding comments with move numbers, I'm neutral - I'm happy to get any comments from stronger players. A visible move number does make me wonder in vain about the move a little, but that's no bad thing.
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Offline Mnemonic
 Post subject: Re: 89. Koroviev (12k) vs Mnemonic (11k)
Post #25 Posted: Sun Dec 26, 2010 5:25 am 
Lives in gote
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Liked others: 26
Was liked: 22
Rank: KGS 7 kyu
KGS: Mnemonic, dude13
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm11 Prisoners: B: 0, W:0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . X . O . X O 4 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Ok, let's rumble...


Edit:
Ok, this is what I expect: He may block from above, but I can connect out and cutting doesn't work
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 no cut
$$ . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . X . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . X 1 3 . |
$$ . X . O . X O 2 . |
$$ . . . . 4 O 5 6 . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -------------------[/go]

His other option is the peep at :b5: but I will get half the corner, access to the outside and sente. (Although I don't have a lot of eye space so maybe he can profit from pressuring me)

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Eye space problems?
$$ . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . X . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . X 1 3 . |
$$ . X . O . X O 2 7 |
$$ . . . . 4 O 6 5 . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -------------------[/go]

If he cut's me out from the outside I will protect the cut with :w4: and after that there are several lines but basically a and b are miai to live/get out I think.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1
$$ . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . X . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . X 1 b . |
$$ . X . O a X O 2 . |
$$ . . . . 3 O . . . |
$$ . . . . . . 4 . . |
$$ -------------------[/go]

At the moment I think the second option is best for him because I'm not safe yet, but we'll see what he plays.

_________________
While I was teaching the game to a friend of mine, my mother from the other room:
"Cutting? Killing? Poking out eyes? What the hell are you playing?"


Last edited by Mnemonic on Sun Dec 26, 2010 9:26 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Offline EdLee
 Post subject: White Move 14
Post #26 Posted: Sun Dec 26, 2010 9:06 am 
Honinbo
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White Move 14.
As noted at Black Move 11, White :w1: tiger's mouth keeps White connected with :wt::
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W
$$ . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . X . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . X X . . |
$$ . X . Q . X O 2 . |
$$ . . . . . O 3 1 . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -------------------[/go]

But with White :w1: pulling back, Black can split White:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W
$$ . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . X . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . b . |
$$ . . . . . X X a . |
$$ . X . Q 4 X O 1 . |
$$ . . . . 2 O . . . |
$$ . . . . . . 3 . . |
$$ -------------------[/go]
(EDIT: Thanks to Magicwand who pointed out W(a)-B(b) exchange not only is unnecessary but actually hurts W.)


Last edited by EdLee on Thu Jan 06, 2011 1:33 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Offline Koroviev
 Post subject: Re: 89. Koroviev (12k) vs Mnemonic (11k)
Post #27 Posted: Tue Jan 04, 2011 5:10 am 
Lives with ko

Posts: 221
Liked others: 38
Was liked: 35
Rank: 6k
Hi Mnemonic, sorry for the delay - I've now finally recovered from new year festivities and am back in action. :mrgreen:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm11 Prisoners: B: 0, W:0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . 5 . . X . O . X O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Not an easy move for me - this is the kind of position where I suspect any move I choose is wrong. I try to keep my thinking simple. The first thing I consider is - is my bottom right corner in danger, or can I tenuki?

It's an unfamiliar position for me, so I can't be sure. It certainly doesn't look completely settled, but then it doesn't look in any immediate danger, and I can't find a move that is definitely sente. Several moves look tempting: P2, S4, O4, but I'm uncertain how big they are and I don't think they require a reply. The one move white move that looks problematic is:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm11 Prisoners: B: 0, W:0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X 9 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 8 7 . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X X 6 . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . X . O . X O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Maybe some trouble there, but nothing too devastating as far as I can see, so I think I will leave this corner for now.

That being so, is any other group in immediate danger? The top left needs attention, since a pincer against my white stone looks severe. I considered this move for a while:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm11 Prisoners: B: 0, W:0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . 5 , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . X . O . X O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


...but then decided that the two-space extension along the bottom is just two big to ignore. If my opponent plays it instead I will have to run into the centre. Also, because of the position of his stone in the bottom left, he doesn't have an obvious extension along the side after my move. And finally, if he jumps out with his lone white stone, I will be happy to extend along the right hand side as below:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm11 Prisoners: B: 0, W:0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 7 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 6 . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . 5 . . X . O . X O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Choosing this move leaves my opponent able to pincer in the top left, but I'm not too worried about that. There is some aji left around P2 that seems more of a problem for white than black. Overall I'm happy with the position after this move.

So there's my thinking, such as it is. Let's see what happens.
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Offline Mnemonic
 Post subject: Re: 89. Koroviev (12k) vs Mnemonic (11k)
Post #28 Posted: Tue Jan 04, 2011 3:12 pm 
Lives in gote
User avatar

Posts: 324
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Liked others: 26
Was liked: 22
Rank: KGS 7 kyu
KGS: Mnemonic, dude13
I will not call blacks move a mistake since last time I did that I ended up in a horrible position :sad: But it is a tad slow (Is this calling it a mistake? I don't want to jinx it) since I never even hopped of attacking the M3 stone.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 Looks bad for white
$$ . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . , . . 2 . . X X . . |
$$ . . 1 . X . O . X O O . |
$$ . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -------------------[/go]

But what to do now? I think tenuki is the most sensible option. When he starts playing in the lower right corner again, I can just come back to the variations I already read out. If I on the other hand play a gote move and he tenukis to the upper left ... My only hope of coming back from my mistakes earlier is to damage his upper left in a similar way that he damaged the lower right.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1
$$ -------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . 1 X . . 3 .
$$ | . . . O . 2 . . . ,
$$ | . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . O . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . .[/go]


Coming back to my local options: I think :w1: is the most likely to get a response.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 Black can't be happy with this.
$$ . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . X . . . |
$$ . . . . . . 3 . . |
$$ . . . . . X X 1 . |
$$ . X . O . X O O . |
$$ . . . . . O . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -------------------[/go]

Whereas just connecting out seems too passive. Plus black can play :b2:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 W can't get out.
$$ . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . X . . . |
$$ . . . 6 8 . . . . |
$$ . . 3 2 5 X X . . |
$$ . X 4 O 7 X O O . |
$$ . . . . 1 O . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -------------------[/go]

_________________
While I was teaching the game to a friend of mine, my mother from the other room:
"Cutting? Killing? Poking out eyes? What the hell are you playing?"
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Offline Mnemonic
 Post subject: Re: 89. Koroviev (12k) vs Mnemonic (11k)
Post #29 Posted: Tue Jan 04, 2011 3:21 pm 
Lives in gote
User avatar

Posts: 324
Location: Dresden
Liked others: 26
Was liked: 22
Rank: KGS 7 kyu
KGS: Mnemonic, dude13
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm11 Prisoners: B: 0, W:0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . 6 X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . X . . X . O . X O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

I decided to go with the tenuki option because the local options seemed really slow. On a other note
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoners: B: 0, W:0
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 7 . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . 2 1 4 X X . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . X . . X 3 O 6 X O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Is blacks influence starting to look scary? I think the right side is the next most important play after the top left corner.

_________________
While I was teaching the game to a friend of mine, my mother from the other room:
"Cutting? Killing? Poking out eyes? What the hell are you playing?"
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Offline Koroviev
 Post subject: Re: 89. Koroviev (12k) vs Mnemonic (11k)
Post #30 Posted: Wed Jan 05, 2011 3:53 am 
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Posts: 221
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm11 Prisoners: B: 0, W:0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . 7 . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . X . . X . O . X O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I had a good ponder about this and I think I've made a decent response - I'd be interested to find out later what any stronger players think.

I said at the start of this game I would avoid fanciful variation diagrams, but I've gone and done quite a few here to explain my thinking.

From playing against weaker players I'm used to meeting this play as a direct response to an approach, as below:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm11 Prisoners: B: 0, W:0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . 6 X . . . 9 . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . 7 . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 8 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . X . . X . O . X O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


In that case it seems to work out pretty well for black - in fact, I've never seen a non-beginner play it, I think. In this situation, however, with the C14 stone already there, it seems like a good play. If I play F16, I can't expect white to allow me to make the comfortable three-space extension, and I will find my two stones pincered. But I don't want to extend straight away, as that would be (kind of) ignoring a contact play. So my plan is to play F16, and if (as I expect) white plays somewhere around 18, below, I will counter pincer at 19.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm11 Prisoners: B: 0, W:0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O X . . . 8 . . 9 . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . 7 . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . X . . X . O . X O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


If white jumps out, I will do the same:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm20 Prisoners: B: 0, W:0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O X . . . O . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . 1 . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . X . . X . O . X O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm20 Prisoners: B: 0, W:0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O X . . . O . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . . 2 , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . X . . X . O . X O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


If he tries to cap my two stones, I can attack his lone stone on the side, and it seems a pretty fair running fight will follow.

If he responds to 17 with tenuki or something quite unexpected, I can consider playing the three-space extension after all:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm11 Prisoners: B: 0, W:0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O X . . . 9 . . . 8 . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . 7 . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . X . . X . O . X O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


As mentioned earlier, I could just ignore the contact play and extend along the side straight away. I would be treating my F17 stone more lightly in this case (which I suppose is good :scratch:) but this doesn't look that great to me, somehow:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm11 Prisoners: B: 0, W:0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O X . . . 7 . . 9 . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . 8 . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . X . . X . O . X O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


So there's my thinking. I might just play my next move purely on intuition - requires less typing.
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Offline Laman
 Post subject: Re: 89. Koroviev (12k) vs Mnemonic (11k)
Post #31 Posted: Wed Jan 05, 2011 8:17 am 
Lives in gote
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KGS: Laman
both players made some mistakes in last moves...

first (and clearest) was w14 at S3 instead of S2, allowing black to cut off a white stone with P2 and force white to small life in the corner. black instead considered if his corner was not in danger - it indeed wasn't. but on the other hand, i also didn't find an obvious moves and had to think about it for a while. then white rejects connecting at P2 - if nothing better, it is clear profit and sente (sente because letting white to divide black's position would make black stones look silly).

i guess w16 E17 is not the best move possible, black showed good reasons why not. white could have played pincer H17, it looks more positive to me. pincering now after strengthening black doesn't achieve much, because white have no support around (therefore black is stronger, not heavier)

i feel black is slightly better but nothing is lost for white, it will be an interesting game hopefully

_________________
Spilling gasoline feels good.

I might be wrong, but probably not.
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Offline Koroviev
 Post subject: Re: 89. Koroviev (12k) vs Mnemonic (11k)
Post #32 Posted: Wed Jan 05, 2011 8:41 am 
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Thanks for both EdLee and Laman for the comments, I look forward to reading them. :blackeye:
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Offline Mnemonic
 Post subject: Re: 89. Koroviev (12k) vs Mnemonic (11k)
Post #33 Posted: Wed Jan 05, 2011 11:02 am 
Lives in gote
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Rank: KGS 7 kyu
KGS: Mnemonic, dude13
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm11 Prisoners: B: 0, W:0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O X . . 8 . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . X . . X . O . X O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Way too tired now. Will probably comment more tomorrow

_________________
While I was teaching the game to a friend of mine, my mother from the other room:
"Cutting? Killing? Poking out eyes? What the hell are you playing?"
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Offline EdLee
 Post subject: B move 15
Post #34 Posted: Wed Jan 05, 2011 11:07 am 
Honinbo
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B move 15.
The hane in sente seems to be the only move to me.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . X . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . X X . . |
$$ . X . O 3 X O O . |
$$ . . . . 1 O . . . |
$$ . . . . . . 2 . . |
$$ -------------------[/go]
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Offline EdLee
 Post subject: W move 16
Post #35 Posted: Wed Jan 05, 2011 11:14 am 
Honinbo
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W move 16.
Since B missed the hane, W should take it.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . X . . X . O . X O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
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Offline Magicwand
 Post subject: Re: White Move 14
Post #36 Posted: Wed Jan 05, 2011 12:39 pm 
Tengen
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EdLee wrote:
White Move 14.
As noted at Black Move 11, White :w1: tiger's mouth keeps White connected with :wt::
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W
$$ . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . X . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . X X . . |
$$ . X . Q . X O 2 . |
$$ . . . . . O 3 1 . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -------------------[/go]

But with White :w1: pulling back, Black can split White:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W
$$ . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . X . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . 6 . |
$$ . . . . . X X 5 . |
$$ . X . Q 4 X O 1 . |
$$ . . . . 2 O . . . |
$$ . . . . . . 3 . . |
$$ -------------------[/go]


for the beginners or sdk's
basic life and death lesson.

below is unconditionally alive.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . X . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . X X . . |
$$ . X . Q X X O O . |
$$ . . . . X O . 2 1 |
$$ . . . . 3 . O . 4 |
$$ -------------------[/go]


ko
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . X . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . B . |
$$ . . . . . X X W . |
$$ . X . O X X O O . |
$$ . . . . X O . 2 1 |
$$ . . . . 3 4 O 5 . |
$$ -------------------[/go]


conclusion: marked exchange is not only unnecessary it hurts you..
i have seen many sdk's make that exchange without thinking.(i was one of them when i was skd)
make sure you learn this L&D.

_________________
"The more we think we know about
The greater the unknown"
Words by neil peart, music by geddy lee and alex lifeson

This post by Magicwand was liked by: gaius
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Offline EdLee
 Post subject:
Post #37 Posted: Thu Jan 06, 2011 1:17 am 
Honinbo
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Thanks, Magicwand.
Magicwand wrote:
ko
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . X . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . B . |
$$ . . . . . X X W . |
$$ . X . O X X O O . |
$$ . . . . X O . 2 1 |
$$ . . . . 3 4 O 5 . |
$$ -------------------[/go]

conclusion: marked exchange is not only unnecessary it hurts you..
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Offline Koroviev
 Post subject: Re: 89. Koroviev (12k) vs Mnemonic (11k)
Post #38 Posted: Thu Jan 06, 2011 3:57 am 
Lives with ko

Posts: 221
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Was liked: 35
Rank: 6k
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm11 Prisoners: B: 0, W:0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O X . . O . . . 9 . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . X . . X . O . X O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


As planned. Since he played J17 instead of K17, I suppose he might consider making an extension along the side, as well as the possibilities I considered in my last post. This position is pretty interesting to me, looking forward to seeing how it works out.


Extra hide tag to sow seeds of worry in my opponent's mind. :mrgreen:


Edit:
And another one, why not?
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Offline Mnemonic
 Post subject: Re: 89. Koroviev (12k) vs Mnemonic (11k)
Post #39 Posted: Thu Jan 06, 2011 8:45 am 
Lives in gote
User avatar

Posts: 324
Location: Dresden
Liked others: 26
Was liked: 22
Rank: KGS 7 kyu
KGS: Mnemonic, dude13
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm11 Prisoners: B: 0, W:0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O X . . O . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . 0 . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . X . . X . O . X O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Hm, not bad. I thought he'd play this. After which I could reduce the left side.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm11 Prisoners: B: 0, W:0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O X . . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . 9 . . . . . . . . . . 0 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . X . . X . O . X O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

This doesn't work now :sad: I'll jump once because he is starting to build a decent framework and a stone on the 3 line doesn't help much. I'm also pretty confident that it is sente because otherwise I could kill those two stones in the upper left.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm16 Prisoners: B: 0, W:0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O X . . O . . . 4 . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . . . , . . . . . X . a . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . 5 . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . 6 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . c . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . b . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . X . . X . O . X O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

These are the points I'm contemplating next. Right now I'm leaning toward the wedge

_________________
While I was teaching the game to a friend of mine, my mother from the other room:
"Cutting? Killing? Poking out eyes? What the hell are you playing?"
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Offline Koroviev
 Post subject: Re: 89. Koroviev (12k) vs Mnemonic (11k)
Post #40 Posted: Thu Jan 06, 2011 9:09 am 
Lives with ko

Posts: 221
Liked others: 38
Was liked: 35
Rank: 6k
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm21 Prisoners: B: 0, W:0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O X . . O . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . X . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . X . . X . O . X O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Progressing as planned. My stone is right on the sector line of White's area, so is in some danger (this is an idea I've just learned about, so I may not understand it fully) but with the relative weakness of the white group to the east, I don't think I can get shut in. I don't want to help white take easy territory on the left, but if he plays there then it leaves his middle group open to attack, so I doubt he will. I expect a cap of some kind, and a running fight to follow. What I want to do is make sure my group can escape to the centre, then approach the bottom left. Still, I am aware that it doesn't look like I can easily make even one eye on the side, so it may not be easy to keep my group safe.
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