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Offline topazg
 Post subject: Re: Magicwand vs. Kirby... Again
Post #61 Posted: Thu Jan 20, 2011 8:29 am 
Tengen
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gaius wrote:
I, too, like black's play. In fact, I think the board almost looks like a 5-stone game now!


How do professionals stop this from happening. Even pro vs pro handi games seem to stay "around {x} stones", with {x} being the original number (at least, looking at Kageyama's they do).

There's an art there somewhere, because mine fall apart if my opponent plays solid/thick attacking Go with his stones
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Offline Magicwand
 Post subject: Re: Magicwand vs. Kirby... Again
Post #62 Posted: Thu Jan 20, 2011 8:33 am 
Tengen
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KGS: magicwand
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Wbaduk: rlatkfkd
DGS: magicwand
OGS: magicwand
cyclops wrote:
Magicwand wrote:
"when you save drowning man they claim that you stole something from him."
moral of the story: when your opponent is about to drown push him down and make sure he is dead.


So you know your fate, Kirby.


actually i was the drowning man in this case not kirby. :)

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The greater the unknown"
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Offline Magicwand
 Post subject: Re: Magicwand vs. Kirby... Again
Post #63 Posted: Thu Jan 20, 2011 11:23 am 
Tengen
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KGS: magicwand
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DGS: magicwand
OGS: magicwand
for observers:
i just realized a mistakes on my last move.
i should've played as below.
i guess i was too happy that my opponent let me loose i didnt think more than few second on the move.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm21
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . X O . . 9 X 0 . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . O X O . . O 7 8 . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . X , X O . . O X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X O . O . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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The greater the unknown"
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Offline Kirby
 Post subject: Re: Magicwand vs. Kirby... Again
Post #64 Posted: Thu Jan 20, 2011 11:35 am 
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Hmm, now I'm curious...

I feel a bit at a loss right now. I want to push ahead... But what about this cut, which makes me uneasy:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . X O . . O X 4 . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . O X O . . O 2 3 . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . X , X O . . O X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X O . O . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Other moves in the local area also seem possible, but none feel as good as pulling ahead... I'm going to mull over this a bit more...

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Offline Kirby
 Post subject: Re: Magicwand vs. Kirby... Again
Post #65 Posted: Thu Jan 20, 2011 5:16 pm 
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KGS: Kirby
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm21
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 8 . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . X O . . O X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . O X O . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . X , X O . . O X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X O . O . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Well, I can't think of a better move. Anything else locally seems like I will fall behind his stones...

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Offline Magicwand
 Post subject: Re: Magicwand vs. Kirby... Again
Post #66 Posted: Thu Jan 20, 2011 5:36 pm 
Tengen
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KGS: magicwand
Tygem: magicwand
Wbaduk: rlatkfkd
DGS: magicwand
OGS: magicwand
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm21
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . X O . . O X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . O X O . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . X , X O . . O X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X O . O . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . . 1 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


i didnt read toomuch on this but i have a feeling that he made a mistake.
i think that weakness on black will guarantee life on the white group.
as i said it is only a feeling but usually correct.

after some reading:
i am probing if he wants to play ko fight or peep.
below two diag will show you the difference if he decide to peep.
i will fight ko because i have good ko threat.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm31
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . X O . . O X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . O X O . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . X , X O . . O X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X O . O 5 O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X X 4 2 3 1 6 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm31
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . X O . . O X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . O X O . . O 3 4 . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . X , X O . . O X X 6 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X O . O . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X X 7 2 . 1 5 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


my mistake actually helped him make a bigger mistake.

lesson to be learn: when you are ahead you must play solid game.
kirby is giving me a chance to comeback from despirate situation.

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"The more we think we know about
The greater the unknown"
Words by neil peart, music by geddy lee and alex lifeson
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Offline Kirby
 Post subject: Re: Magicwand vs. Kirby... Again
Post #67 Posted: Fri Jan 21, 2011 10:25 am 
Honinbo

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KGS: Kirby
Tygem: 커비라고해
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm21
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . X O . . O X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . O X O . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . X , X O . . O X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X O . O . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . 2 O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I guess he'll play here:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm21
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . X O . . O X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . O X O . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . X , X O . . O X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X O . O . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X X . W X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I think it's a fair result for black. I really couldn't get myself to play anything other than my last move, because I didn't want to fall behind his stones.

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Offline Magicwand
 Post subject: Re: Magicwand vs. Kirby... Again
Post #68 Posted: Fri Jan 21, 2011 10:55 am 
Tengen
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Posts: 4844
Location: Mechanicsburg, PA
Liked others: 62
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Rank: Wbaduk 7D
KGS: magicwand
Tygem: magicwand
Wbaduk: rlatkfkd
DGS: magicwand
OGS: magicwand
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm21 black: 1 white: 0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . X O . . O X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . O X O . . O 5 . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . X , X O . . O X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X O . O 4 . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X X . 3 X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

wow.. i will save my ajikeshi ko for now.
i guess he might ignore me. or not??
nomatter what this is my only choice.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm21 black: 1 white: 0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . a . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . X O . . O X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . O X O . . O 5 . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . X , X O . . O X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X O . O 4 . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X X . 3 X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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The greater the unknown"
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Offline Kirby
 Post subject: Re: Magicwand vs. Kirby... Again
Post #69 Posted: Fri Jan 21, 2011 11:09 am 
Honinbo

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KGS: Kirby
Tygem: 커비라고해
Interesting... If I answer his threat, maybe I can use "a":
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm21 black: 1 white: 0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . X O . . O X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . O X O . a O 5 6 . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . X , X O . . O X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X O . O 4 . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X X . 3 X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


But this will require some more thought...

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Offline Loons
 Post subject: Re: Magicwand vs. Kirby... Again
Post #70 Posted: Sat Jan 22, 2011 4:59 am 
Gosei
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Very exciting match.

Sometimes black cannot permit this. This time does not seem to be one of those times though, so I'm just making noise, really.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm21 black: 1 white: 0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . X O . . O X 1 . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . O X O . . O O X . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . X , X O . . O X X 2 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X O . O X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X X . O X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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Offline Kirby
 Post subject: Re: Magicwand vs. Kirby... Again
Post #71 Posted: Sat Jan 22, 2011 8:37 am 
Honinbo

Posts: 9552
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KGS: Kirby
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm21 black: 1 white: 1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . X O . . O X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . O X O . 8 O O 6 . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . X , X O . . O X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X O . O . 7 X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X X . O X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Meh, what the heck. I'll continue to ko...

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Offline Magicwand
 Post subject: Re: Magicwand vs. Kirby... Again
Post #72 Posted: Sat Jan 22, 2011 9:40 am 
Tengen
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Posts: 4844
Location: Mechanicsburg, PA
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Rank: Wbaduk 7D
KGS: magicwand
Tygem: magicwand
Wbaduk: rlatkfkd
DGS: magicwand
OGS: magicwand
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm21 black: 2 white: 1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . X O . 9 O X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . O X O . X O O X . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . X , X O . . O X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X O . O 0 . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X X . O X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm31 black: 2 white: 1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . X O . O O X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . O X O . X O O X . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . X , X O . . O X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X O . O X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X X . O X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


i was going to use ko threat as below..but i was afraid he might not answer my threat.
so i decided to use ajikeshi ko threat. this ko threat is very important for me to win.

in my opinion he can lose the threat and play somewhere twice and still will be good game for black.
for me, if i lose this ko then i am in big hole. i was lucky that he answered my threat on prior move.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm31 black: 2 white: 1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . X O . O O X 1 . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . O X O . X O O X . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . X , X O . 2 . X X 3 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X O . O X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X X . O X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

_________________
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Offline Li Kao
 Post subject: Re: Magicwand vs. Kirby... Again
Post #73 Posted: Sat Jan 22, 2011 9:49 am 
Lives in gote
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Posts: 643
Location: Munich, Germany
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Rank: KGS 3k
KGS: LiKao / Loki
I'd ignore MW's threat

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Offline Dusk Eagle
 Post subject: Re: Magicwand vs. Kirby... Again
Post #74 Posted: Sat Jan 22, 2011 6:01 pm 
Gosei
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . 2 . O . O O X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . O . O . X O O X . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . X , X O . 1 . X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X O . O X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X X . O X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

I wouldn't. Given Magicwand's current predicament, the atsusa ;-) seems too good for white IMO.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . 4 . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . 2 X O . O O X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . W X O . X O O X . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . X , X O . . O X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X O . O . 3 X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X X . O X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Smother the :wc: stone!

_________________
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Each of us woke up one moment and here we were in the darkness.
We're nameless things with no memory; no knowledge of what went before,
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Offline Kirby
 Post subject: Re: Magicwand vs. Kirby... Again
Post #75 Posted: Sun Jan 23, 2011 7:47 am 
Honinbo

Posts: 9552
Liked others: 1602
Was liked: 1712
KGS: Kirby
Tygem: 커비라고해
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm31 black: 2 white: 2
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . 2 X O . O O X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . O X O . X O O X . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . X , X O 4 . O X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X O . O . 3 X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X X . O X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I will play here. He might ignore the threat, but if he does, then the marked stones are absolutely safe, even if I tenuki. For example:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm31 black: 2 white: 2
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . B B O . O O X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . O B O . X O O X . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . X , X O X . O X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X O . O . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X X . O . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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Offline Magicwand
 Post subject: Re: Magicwand vs. Kirby... Again
Post #76 Posted: Sun Jan 23, 2011 8:09 am 
Tengen
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Posts: 4844
Location: Mechanicsburg, PA
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Rank: Wbaduk 7D
KGS: magicwand
Tygem: magicwand
Wbaduk: rlatkfkd
DGS: magicwand
OGS: magicwand
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm31 black: 3 white: 2
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . 7 X X O . O O X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . O X O . X O O X . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . X , X O X . O X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X O 5 O 6 . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X X . O X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


correct move for kirby:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm31 black: 3 white: 2
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . 8 O . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . 7 X X O . O O X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . O X O . X O O X . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . X , X O X . O X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X O 5 O 6 . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X X . O X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


i dont think he will answer as below.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm31 black: 3 white: 2
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . 7 X X O . O O X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . 8 . X O . X O O X . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . X , X O X . O X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X O 5 O 6 . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X X . O X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


i have to win ko fight in order to take advantage of the weakness a and b
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm31 black: 3 white: 2
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . 7 X X O . O O X b . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . O X O . X O O X . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . X , X O X . O X X a . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X O 5 O 6 . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X X . O X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

_________________
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The greater the unknown"
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Offline Aphelion
 Post subject: Re: Magicwand vs. Kirby... Again
Post #77 Posted: Sun Jan 23, 2011 10:26 am 
Lives in sente
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I don't know why Kirby allowed this ko fight. I can't see him gaining anything in this area that he didn't already have before
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Offline jts
 Post subject: Re: Magicwand vs. Kirby... Again
Post #78 Posted: Sun Jan 23, 2011 12:44 pm 
Oza
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Aphelion wrote:
I don't know why Kirby allowed this ko fight. I can't see him gaining anything in this area that he didn't already have before

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm31 black: 3 white: 2
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . C . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X O . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . O X X O . O O X b . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . O X O . X O O X . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . X , X O X X . X X a . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X O O O X . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X X . O X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Kirby winning the ko seems huge to me... at least as big as exploiting the a/b weakness for MW if he wins. Maybe I lack imagination, but once M6 is safe, how many ko threats could Magicwand have that are bigger than some move around :ec: ? It's not so much whether the ko is worth winning that worries me, it's whether Kirby has enough threats to win it. But in the worst case scenario, he can just defend his cut in sente, which is better than playing R5 in gote - that's the whole point of ko, right?
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Offline Stable
 Post subject: Re: Magicwand vs. Kirby... Again
Post #79 Posted: Sun Jan 23, 2011 1:49 pm 
Lives with ko

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I know he doesn't have a lot of options, but every time MW lengthens that nonfunctional ladder his position gets worse. Kirby should just try and spin the ko out as long as possible, he's gaining even if he loses the ko.
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Offline Kirby
 Post subject: Re: Magicwand vs. Kirby... Again
Post #80 Posted: Sun Jan 23, 2011 5:44 pm 
Honinbo

Posts: 9552
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Was liked: 1712
KGS: Kirby
Tygem: 커비라고해
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm31 black: 3 white: 3
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . 8 O 0 . . . X . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . O X X O . O O X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . O X O . X O O X . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . X , X O X . O X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X O O O . 9 X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X X . O X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I


wonder


if


he'll


respond


...

_________________
be immersed
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