90: CSamurai (5k) vs Chew (3k)

Numsgil · Post by **Numsgil** » Tue Jan 18, 2011 7:07 pm

Magicwand wrote:
37 is wrong. it should secure bottom side instead.(see below)

$$Bcm31 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0.5
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . X . . X . . . . O . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O X . . . . . 7 . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . X X O X X . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . O . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm31 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0.5 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . X . . X . . . . O . O . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O O X . . . . . 7 . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . X X O X X . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . O . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

CSamurai · Post by **CSamurai** » Tue Jan 18, 2011 7:26 pm

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm41 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0.5 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . X . . X . . . . O . O . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O X . . . 1 . . X . . . . . X . . | $$ | . O O X . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . X X O X X . O . . O . . . . X . . . | $$ | . O . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

I thought about a few alternatives to this.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm40 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0.5 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . X . . X . . . . O . O . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O X . . . . . . X . . . . . X . . | $$ | . O O X . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . X X O X X . 1 . . O 2 . . . X . . . | $$ | . O . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Since white extended towards the left first, I could take advantage of my strength on this side to build more territory. The problem is, the resulting fight on the left is not favourable to me.

Alternately,

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm40 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0.5 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . X . . X . . . . O . O . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O X . . . . . . X . . . . . X . . | $$ | . O O X . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . X X O X X . 1 . . O . . 3 . X . . . | $$ | . O . O O 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

This move threatens to undercut white's group, and turns this into a rather more all or nothing battle than I'd like, especially when 42 likely establishes a comfortable base for white, and white can treat 40 lightly.

I'm most comfortable letting white have what it wants for now, reducing later, and profiting by leaning on the groups.

Magicwand · Post by **Magicwand** » Tue Jan 18, 2011 7:38 pm

Numsgil wrote:
Magicwand wrote:
37 is wrong. it should secure bottom side instead.(see below)

$$Bcm31 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0.5
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . X . . X . . . . O . O . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O O X . . . . . 7 . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . X X O X X . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . O . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm31 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0.5 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . X . . X . . . . O . O . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O O X . . . . . 7 . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . X X O X X . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . O . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Care to elaborate?

Certainly if black's left wall lacked eyespace, something like the move you show would be urgent because it makes the difference between a weak group under attack if white goes there and a thick position. But in this position, black's wall can more or less fend for itself, and so I'd wager that completing the corner or playing on the side are stylistic choices (both are "big" and arguably of equal worth, but not "urgent").

So I'm not seeing something you're seeing. Maybe I'm underestimating the strength of black's wall.

according to the doctrin corner first and side.
but this is a special case.
side has invasion point 'a' which make whole middle weak.
i am not sure if what i showed you is optimal but black need to place something on that bottom side to make use of the influence or he the invasion will settle too easily. if you see stronger players they never leave weakpoints and play solid game. point 'a' is a weakpoint for black. it need to be fixed asap.

from my diag below white will play the corner and possible variation.
black is ahead and dont need to fight at all and let him do whatever he wants.
black's influence in the middle will build comfortable lead without any complication.
as you can see white pointed is prettymuch restricted but black's moyo can grow very easily.

side is bigger than corner.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm37 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0.5 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . X . . X . . . . O . O . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . 3 . . . | $$ | . O X X . . . . . . 7 . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O X . . . . . . . 6 . 4 . 2 . . . | $$ | . O O X . . . . . 1 . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . X X O X X . a . . . . 5 . . X . . . | $$ | . O . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Website · Post by **Chew Terr** » Wed Jan 19, 2011 8:27 am

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm41 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0.5 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . X . . X . . . . O . O . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O X . . . X . . X . . . . . X . . | $$ | . O O X . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . X X O X X . O . . O . . 2 . X . . . | $$ | . O . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

There are weaknesses to this shape, with the jump in each direction. Black can play to separate the two jumps. However, if he does, I think it will solidify the other side. I will prioritize the right side in that situation, as the leftmost stone could either be connected in gote or sacrificed for sente.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm41 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0.5 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . X . . X . b . . O . O . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . c . X X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . a . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O X . . . X . . X . . d . . X . . | $$ | . O O X . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . X X O X X . O . . O . . 2 . X . . . | $$ | . O . O O . . . . . . . . . . e . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

If I can stabilize my group, these are some of the moves that I want.

CSamurai · Post by **CSamurai** » Thu Jan 20, 2011 10:03 pm

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm41 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0.5 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . X . . X . . . . O . O . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O X . . . X . . X . . 3 . . X . . | $$ | . O O X . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . X X O X X . O . . O . . O . X . . . | $$ | . O . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Website · Post by **Chew Terr** » Fri Jan 21, 2011 9:48 am

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm41 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0.5 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . X . . X . . . . O . O . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . 4 . X X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O X . . . X . . X . . X . . X . . | $$ | . O O X . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . X X O X X . O . . O . . O . X . . . | $$ | . O . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Magicwand · Post by **Magicwand** » Fri Jan 21, 2011 10:43 am

for ob:

i will give you my input on this board position:
i evaluate everything by comparing two diag and dicide which is better.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm41 diag 1. this is an actual game. $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . X . . X . . . . O . O . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . 4 . X X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O X . . . X . . X . . X . . X . . | $$ | . O O X . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . X X O X X . O . . O . . O . X . . . | $$ | . O . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm41 diag 2. this is better than actual game $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . X . . X . . . . O . O . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 . X O . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O X . . . X . . X . . X . . X . . | $$ | . O O X . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . X X O X X . O . . O . . O . X . . . | $$ | . O . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

i feel that diag 1 actual game is worse than diag 2.
when you are out numbered you should play solid connection.
if you thin yourself because his moyo look big you are asking for more trouble.
on contriary you should shrink your self even more.

i am not saying second diag is a good move
my point is that his move is wrong.

example of correct move:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm41 diag 3. a,b,c are example of correct move $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . X . . X . . . . O . O . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . a . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . b . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . . c . . | $$ | . . O X . . . X . . X . . X . . X . . | $$ | . O O X . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . X X O X X . O . . O . . O . X . . . | $$ | . O . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

diag 4 below is a probe asking him a or b.
if a then you have aji on the side to make a life.
if b then you have guanantee endgame.
depends on how he answer you will make your plan.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm41 diag 4 point a example $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . X . . X . . . . O . O . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . a . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . b 4 . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O X . . . X . . X . . X . . X . . | $$ | . O O X . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . X X O X X . O . . O . . O . X . . . | $$ | . O . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

below is one of the points that you will not be attacked severly.
you are limiting his growth. (white is ahead in my opinion)

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm41 diag 5 point b example $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . X . . X . . . . O . O . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . 4 . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O X . . . X . . X . . X . . X . . | $$ | . O O X . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . X X O X X . O . . O . . O . X . . . | $$ | . O . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

below is example c where white is probing asking him a or b.
if he play a then you have aji that might give you life on the side or corner.
if he play b then you can tenuki and use 'c' for possible life on the side.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm41 diag 6 point c example $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . X . . X . . . . O . O . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . a 4 . . | $$ | . . O X . . . X . . X . . X . b X c . | $$ | . O O X . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . X X O X X . O . . O . . O . X . . . | $$ | . O . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

i am gaving you one of the 10 chinese go saying.
rough translation: if you are out numbered you should cover your weakness.

and 2 example of probe (or invasion)
and 1 example of limiting opponent's moyo.

hope it helps

CSamurai · Post by **CSamurai** » Sun Jan 23, 2011 5:52 pm

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm41 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0.5 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . X . . X . . . . O . O . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . 4 . X X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O X . . . X . . X . . X . . X . . | $$ | . O O X . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . X X O X X . O . . O . . O . X . . . | $$ | . O . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

I'm not sure I like my answer to this move, but.. I'm fairly sure I don't like anything I can think of better. I've been mulling this over for two days now, and I just don't see a better way to defend against this incursion. Instinct tells me that this is too far, but I don't like the results for any of my attempts to punish it.

I'd diagram all the things I've thought about over the last two days, but that would take about 6-7 diagrams, so for now, suffice it to say, I'm not pleased with this, since it strengthens his stone more than I'd like, but nor do I like any of my other options. I expect something like..

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm41 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0.5 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . X . . X . . . . O . O . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . 4 . X X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . 6 5 . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . 8 7 . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . 0 9 . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O X . . . X . . X . . X . . X . . | $$ | . O O X . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . X X O X X . O . . O . . O . X . . . | $$ | . O . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

this is more or less how I expect this to roll, whith white trying to reduce, and me resisting as much as I dare. 49 and 50 may well be different. I'm not terribly sure.

Website · Post by **Chew Terr** » Mon Jan 24, 2011 9:15 am

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm41 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0.5 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . X . . X . . . . O . O . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . O . X X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . . 6 . . | $$ | . . O X . . . X . . X . . X . . X . . | $$ | . O O X . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . X X O X X . O . . O . . O . X . . . | $$ | . O . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bc Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0.5 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . X . . X . . . . O . O . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . 4 . X X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . c . . . | $$ | . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . 1 W . . | $$ | . . O X . . . X . . X b a X . 2 X . . | $$ | . O O X . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . X X O X X . O . . O . . O . X . . . | $$ | . O . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Okay, so here's my thought. When I made my prior move, I was hoping to get it in sente and then take 'a' or 'b' to reduce the bottom further, while connecting to my stones below. However, I don't think I can safely reduce there and connect. What I'd like to do as an alternative is to open up a bit of aji. If I get half of a stable group here, then any move that threatens to connect to it becomes major sente. If I get all of a stable group here, I live and win. I'm also going to consider 2 at 'c'. Regardless, if I don't play this move, I lose nothing. Playing this move at most loses a ko threat, but because of how sente it is, at least he can't tenuki to punish nonlocally. I've been playing too passively, I need to play aggressive, whether or not I"m sure it works. =)

topazg · Post by **topazg** » Mon Jan 24, 2011 9:17 am

Post by **Solomon** » Mon Jan 24, 2011 10:27 am

45 is an eyesore. The connection between O14 and O17 is bad, and 45 does nothing but indirectly strengthen the connection for a very small amount of points. I would have left 44 alone and later considered the exploit:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0.5 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . X . . X . . . . O . O . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . X O . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . O . X X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O X . . . X . . X . . X . . X . . | $$ | . O O X . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . X X O X X . O . . O . . O . X . . . | $$ | . O . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Also F2 is much bigger than it looks.

CSamurai · Post by **CSamurai** » Mon Jan 24, 2011 6:58 pm

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm41 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0.5 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . X . . X . . . . O . O . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . O . X X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . O X . . . X . . X . . X . 7 X . . | $$ | . O O X . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . X X O X X . O . . O . . O . X . . . | $$ | . O . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Another very agressive move from white. I believe this is overplay, and as such, I'm going to play calmly, and see what white can do. I don't see a good amount of space here for white. I could have played something more stern..

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm47 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0.5 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . X . . X . . . . O . O . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . O . X X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . 6 2 . . | $$ | . O X X . . . . . . . . . . 7 1 W . . | $$ | . . O X . . . X . . X . . X . 4 X . . | $$ | . O O X . . . . . , . . . . . , 5 . . | $$ | . X X O X X . O . . O . . O . X . . . | $$ | . O . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

A possible continuation from the hane on top.

This doesn't hurt me much either, but, notice, I strengthen white's stone a little by forcing the 48 to be an extension. I really don't want to give white that sort of chance here.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm47 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0.5 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . X . . X . . . . O . O . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . O . X X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . . X 3 . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . . W . . | $$ | . . O X . . . X . . X . . X . 1 X . . | $$ | . O O X . . . . . , . . . . . , , . . | $$ | . X X O X X . O . . O . . O . X . . . | $$ | . O . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Notice, white doesn't have room to live here. Learning to recognize that fact is important in learning to play with influence. White has to fight strongly to make small life, and I have not yet strengthened any of their stones, making this a much better line, in my opinion. White has room for only 1 eye in this formation.

The other formation is better in that white gets no eyespace, but it encourages white out into the center, where this allows white to become entrapped easily.

Maybe I'm being too soft on white, but this way feels good to me.

Website · Post by **Chew Terr** » Tue Jan 25, 2011 9:07 am

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bcm41 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0.5 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . X . . X . . . . O . O . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . O . X X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . . X 8 . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . O X . . . X . . X . . X . X X . . | $$ | . O O X . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . X X O X X . O . . O . . O . X . . . | $$ | . O . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Ah hem. Infestors? In <MY> natural? It's more likely than you think!

Mnemonic · Post by **Mnemonic** » Tue Jan 25, 2011 9:57 am

@ Chew Terr

Website · Post by **Chew Terr** » Tue Jan 25, 2011 12:20 pm

Mnem:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bc Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0.5 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . X . . X . . . . O . O . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . O . X X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 6 . 4 . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 3 . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . . X W 5 . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O X X . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . O X . . . X . . X . . X . X X . . | $$ | . O O X . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . X X O X X . O . . O . . O . X . . . | $$ | . O . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

This is just a quick thrown-together sequence without a lot of deep thought. Just the sort of: Crosscuts are full of aji. If my opponent does a hane, I can get a lot of that sort of aji/forcing moves on one side or the other. If my opponent doesn't hane, I can extend towards my prior forcing attachment, getting me closer to having a base.

Life In 19x19

90: CSamurai (5k) vs Chew (3k)

Re: 90: CSamurai (5k) vs Chew (3k)

Re: 90: CSamurai (5k) vs Chew (3k)

Re: 90: CSamurai (5k) vs Chew (3k)

Re: 90: CSamurai (5k) vs Chew (3k)

Re: 90: CSamurai (5k) vs Chew (3k)

Re: 90: CSamurai (5k) vs Chew (3k)

Re: 90: CSamurai (5k) vs Chew (3k)

Re: 90: CSamurai (5k) vs Chew (3k)

Re: 90: CSamurai (5k) vs Chew (3k)

Re: 90: CSamurai (5k) vs Chew (3k)

Re: 90: CSamurai (5k) vs Chew (3k)

Re: 90: CSamurai (5k) vs Chew (3k)

Re: 90: CSamurai (5k) vs Chew (3k)

Re: 90: CSamurai (5k) vs Chew (3k)

Re: 90: CSamurai (5k) vs Chew (3k)