Magicwand vs. Kirby... Again

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Magicwand
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Re: Magicwand vs. Kirby... Again

Post by Magicwand »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm151 Captured Stones: black 6, white 6
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O X X . X O X X . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . O X O . X O X X O X |
$$ | . O X X . . . X X X X O O X O X . O . |
$$ | . X . . . . . . X O O O X O O . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O X X X X O . O . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . X O . O X . X O . . . . |
$$ | . . O X X X X X X O O O X O O X . . . |
$$ | . X X O O O O X O X O . O X O . . . . |
$$ | . X O . X W . O O X X O X . . , . . O |
$$ | . O . O . . . . . . . O O . O . O O X |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O O O X . . . . X X |
$$ | . . . . . . . O O X X O X . X . X . . |
$$ | . O X . . . . . X . X X O X O O X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . X . X O . X O O X . |
$$ | . . . O . O O X X , X O . O O X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . O X . . . X O O O X X X 7 . |
$$ | . . . . O X X . . O X X X . O X O . . |
$$ | . . . . O O X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

just one minor correction.

"The more we think we know about
The greater the unknown"
Words by neil peart, music by geddy lee and alex lifeson
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Kirby
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Re: Magicwand vs. Kirby... Again

Post by Kirby »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm151 Captured Stones: black 6, white 10
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O X X . X O X X . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . O X O . X O X X O X |
$$ | . O X X . . . X X X X O O X O X . O . |
$$ | . X . . . . . . X O O O X O O . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O X X X X O . O . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . X O . O X . X O . . . . |
$$ | . . O X X X X X X O O O X O O X . . . |
$$ | . X X O O O O X O X O . O X O . . . . |
$$ | . X O . X W . O O X X O X . . , . . O |
$$ | . O . O . . . . . . . O O . O . O O X |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O O O X . . . . X X |
$$ | . . . . . . . O O X X O X . X 8 X . . |
$$ | . O X . . . . . X . X X O X . . X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . X . X O . X . . X . |
$$ | . . . O . O O X X , X O . O O X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . O X . . . X O O O X X X O . |
$$ | . . . . O X X . . O X X X . O X O . . |
$$ | . . . . O O X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
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Magicwand
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Re: Magicwand vs. Kirby... Again

Post by Magicwand »

i resign.
thank you.
"The more we think we know about
The greater the unknown"
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Re: Magicwand vs. Kirby... Again

Post by Kirby »

Thanks, Magicwand. I am sorry for the mistakes that happened in this game.
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Re: Magicwand vs. Kirby... Again

Post by Aphelion »

Nice job Kirby! I doubted you when the center died, but your drive to the end is impressive :).
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Re: Magicwand vs. Kirby... Again

Post by Kirby »

If you don't mind, I would like to ask about this move:


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm51 black: 6 white: 4
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O O O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . 1 O X X O X . . . X . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . X . X X O . O O X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . X . X O . X O O X . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . X , X O . O O X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X O O O X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X X . O X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


This move feels strong to me - but I do not think I would have discovered it since it is gote.

How do you decide to make a move like this, though gote.

Ok, my next move after this was gote, but it somehow seems different.

Could you please describe this move?
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Kirby
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Re: Magicwand vs. Kirby... Again

Post by Kirby »

Aphelion wrote:Nice job Kirby! I doubted you when the center died, but your drive to the end is impressive :).


Thanks, Aphelion.
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Chew Terr
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Re: Magicwand vs. Kirby... Again

Post by Chew Terr »

Congratulations, and thank you both for playing! This game was entertaining (and hopefully useful, if I can remember a few of the specific things I learned this game). MW in particular, it's been mentioned elsewhere, but your comments are more and more useful. Kirby, I think I sent you a message the first time I saw you play a Malkovitch, but your comments have always been helpful. Keep it up, I appreciate it.
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Re: Magicwand vs. Kirby... Again

Post by daniel_the_smith »

Great game, guys, thanks for playing!
That which can be destroyed by the truth should be.
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Re: Magicwand vs. Kirby... Again

Post by Magicwand »

Kirby wrote:If you don't mind, I would like to ask about this move:


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm51 black: 6 white: 4
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O O O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . 1 O X X O X . . . X . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . X . X X O . O O X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . X . X O . X O O X . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . X , X O . O O X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X O O O X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X X . O X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


This move feels strong to me - but I do not think I would have discovered it since it is gote.

How do you decide to make a move like this, though gote.

Ok, my next move after this was gote, but it somehow seems different.

Could you please describe this move?


i feel that is the only move i can make in that situation.
if you atari it will breakdown white influence in sente.
i needed some influence to overcome 3 stone handy.
"The more we think we know about
The greater the unknown"
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Joaz Banbeck
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Re: Magicwand vs. Kirby... Again

Post by Joaz Banbeck »

Congratulations, Kirby!
Help make L19 more organized. Make an index: https://lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=5207
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Re: Magicwand vs. Kirby... Again

Post by Kirby »

Bill Spight wrote:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 8 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . 2 . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . 7 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . 6 . . |
$$ | . . 9 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 1 . 5 . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . 0 . . 3 . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Tengen is an interesting start to a 3 stone game. :) But then Black follows with four moves on the third line. None of these moves is bad, but the overall result is, IMO, inconsistent. I do not think that it is enough, as a rule, just to use tengen as a ladder breaker or a stone to run to during fights. You want to use it to create a huge framework.Playing low because you have played high already does not get that done.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . 2 . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 1 . 5 . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . a . 6 . b . 3 . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


:b4: could be at 6, but after :w5: :b6: is big. White is threatening to make a nice framework on the bottom side. It is very hard for White to make the small extension to "a", and if :w3: extends to "b", Black can extend to "a".

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 8 a . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . 2 . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . 7 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . 6 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 1 . 5 . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


:b8: is a nice play. :) But the fact that, even with tengen to run to, running out is not so great, shows the inconsistency of Black's play so far. I think that :b8: would be better at "a". It is harder to attack and works better with tengen.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 8 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . 2 . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . 7 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . 6 . . |
$$ | . . 9 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 1 . 5 . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . b a 0 . . 3 . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


:b10: is good, but "a" would be better, IMO, as it allows White to extend to "b".


K3 does seem better than L3, as it makes it less desirable for white to play at "b" in your last diagram. I wonder if the reason that I didn't play it is related to the inconsistency that you mention in this post.

Namely, I feel comfortable when I can easily "make a base" and have room to live on the side. Playing a stone just to split up the opponent - when I cannot guarantee a base for myself in the immediate area - is something that makes me feel, at the very least, uncomfortable.

Based on this type of feeling, I have felt that I like to play territorially - maybe you know better than I how I play.

But it's difficult for me to play many stones on the 4th line sometimes, because doing so makes it harder to form territory than playing on the 3rd line.

Any diagnosis for this, doctor?
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Re: Magicwand vs. Kirby... Again

Post by Kirby »

Magicwand wrote:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm51 black: 6 white: 4
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . X . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . 7 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O O O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O O X X O X . . . X . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . X . X X O . O O X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . X . X O . X O O X . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . X , X O . O O X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X O O O X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X X . O X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

little change of plan..
i want him to feel that side is big and try to save that one stone.
then i will grab the flow and win easily.



As black, what would you play here, Magicwand? In the game I was lucky, but I wonder what the strongest way to play is.
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Kirby
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Re: Magicwand vs. Kirby... Again

Post by Kirby »

Magicwand wrote:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm91 Captured Stones: :white: :6 :black: :4
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O . X . X O X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O X O . X O . X O . |
$$ | . . . X . . . X X X X O O X . X . O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X O O O X O O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . X X X O . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X . X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O 9 . . O X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . X . X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . O . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O O O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O O X X O X . X . X . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . X . X X O X O O X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . X . X O . X O O X . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . X , X O . O O X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X O O O X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X X . O X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

i like captured stone :)
i will go for the kill. i am not 100% sure but i think black is dead.



Something went wrong between the lower right and this board position, I think.

What was it?
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Magicwand
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Re: Magicwand vs. Kirby... Again

Post by Magicwand »

Kirby wrote:
Magicwand wrote:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm51 black: 6 white: 4
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . X . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . 7 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O O O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O O X X O X . . . X . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . X . X X O . O O X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . X . X O . X O O X . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . X , X O . O O X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X O O O X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X X . O X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

little change of plan..
i want him to feel that side is big and try to save that one stone.
then i will grab the flow and win easily.



As black, what would you play here, Magicwand? In the game I was lucky, but I wonder what the strongest way to play is.

you can not tenuki lower right.
when you played a killing move..i thought it was to cover your weakness and didnt read. :razz:
that was the story behind my blunder.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm51 black: 6 white: 4
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . X . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 8 . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . 7 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O O O . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O O X X O X . . . X . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . X . X X O . O O X 9 . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . X . X O . X O O X . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . X , X O . O O X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X O O O X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X X . O X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


i think i would have played it as below. but it might be totally wrong.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm51 black: 6 white: 4
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . X . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . 0 . O . O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . 9 7 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O O O . . . . 8 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O O X X O X . . . X . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . X . X X O . O O X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . X . X O . X O O X . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . X , X O . O O X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . X O O O X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X X . O X O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
"The more we think we know about
The greater the unknown"
Words by neil peart, music by geddy lee and alex lifeson
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