Magicwand vs. Kirby... Again

Joaz Banbeck · **#281**

Congratulations, Kirby!

Kirby · **#282**

Bill Spight wrote:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm1 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . 8 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . 2 . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . 7 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . 6 . . | $$ | . . 9 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . 1 . 5 . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . 0 . . 3 . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Tengen is an interesting start to a 3 stone game.

But then Black follows with four moves on the third line. None of these moves is bad, but the overall result is, IMO, inconsistent. I do not think that it is enough, as a rule, just to use tengen as a ladder breaker or a stone to run to during fights. You want to use it to create a huge framework.Playing low because you have played high already does not get that done.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm1 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . 2 . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . 1 . 5 . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . a . 6 . b . 3 . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

could be at 6, but after :w5:

is big. White is threatening to make a nice framework on the bottom side. It is very hard for White to make the small extension to "a", and if :w3:

extends to "b", Black can extend to "a".

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm1 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . 8 a . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . 2 . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . 7 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . 6 . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . 1 . 5 . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

is a nice play.

But the fact that, even with tengen to run to, running out is not so great, shows the inconsistency of Black's play so far. I think that :b8:

would be better at "a". It is harder to attack and works better with tengen.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm1 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . 8 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . 2 . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . 7 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . 6 . . | $$ | . . 9 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . 1 . 5 . . . , . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . b a 0 . . 3 . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

is good, but "a" would be better, IMO, as it allows White to extend to "b".

K3 does seem better than L3, as it makes it less desirable for white to play at "b" in your last diagram. I wonder if the reason that I didn't play it is related to the inconsistency that you mention in this post.

Namely, I feel comfortable when I can easily "make a base" and have room to live on the side. Playing a stone just to split up the opponent - when I cannot guarantee a base for myself in the immediate area - is something that makes me feel, at the very least, uncomfortable.

Based on this type of feeling, I have felt that I like to play territorially - maybe you know better than I how I play.

But it's difficult for me to play many stones on the 4th line sometimes, because doing so makes it harder to form territory than playing on the 3rd line.

Any diagnosis for this, doctor?

Kirby · **#283**

Magicwand wrote:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm51 black: 6 white: 4 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . X . . . X . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . 7 . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . O O O . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . O O X X O X . . . X . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . X . X X O . O O X . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . X . X O . X O O X . | $$ | . . . O . O . . X , X O . O O X X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . X O O O X X X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X X . O X O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

As black, what would you play here, Magicwand? In the game I was lucky, but I wonder what the strongest way to play is.

Kirby · **#284**

Quote:

Magicwand wrote:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm91 Captured Stones: :6 :4 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . O . X . X O X X . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . O X O . X O . X O . | $$ | . . . X . . . X X X X O O X . X . O . | $$ | . . . . . . . . X O O O X O O . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . O . X X X O . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X . X O . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . O 9 . . O X . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . X . X O . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . O . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . O O O . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . O O X X O X . X . X . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . X . X X O X O O X . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . X . X O . X O O X . | $$ | . . . O . O . . X , X O . O O X X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . X O O O X X X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X X . O X O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

i like captured stone

Something went wrong between the lower right and this board position, I think.

What was it?

Magicwand · **#285**

Kirby wrote:

Magicwand wrote:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm51 black: 6 white: 4 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . X . . . X . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . 7 . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . O O O . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . O O X X O X . . . X . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . X . X X O . O O X . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . X . X O . X O O X . | $$ | . . . O . O . . X , X O . O O X X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . X O O O X X X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X X . O X O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

As black, what would you play here, Magicwand? In the game I was lucky, but I wonder what the strongest way to play is.

you can not tenuki lower right.
when you played a killing move..i thought it was to cover your weakness and didnt read. :razz:

that was the story behind my blunder.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm51 black: 6 white: 4 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . X . . . X . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 8 . X . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . 7 . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . O O O . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . O O X X O X . . . X . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . X . X X O . O O X 9 . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . X . X O . X O O X . | $$ | . . . O . O . . X , X O . O O X X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . X O O O X X X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X X . O X O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

i think i would have played it as below. but it might be totally wrong.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm51 black: 6 white: 4 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . X . . . X . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . 0 . O . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . 9 7 . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . O O O . . . . 8 . . | $$ | . . . . . . . O O X X O X . . . X . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . X . X X O . O O X . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . X . X O . X O O X . | $$ | . . . O . O . . X , X O . O O X X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . X O O O X X X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X X . O X O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Magicwand · **#286**

Kirby wrote:

Namely, I feel comfortable when I can easily "make a base" and have room to live on the side. Playing a stone just to split up the opponent - when I cannot guarantee a base for myself in the immediate area - is something that makes me feel, at the very least, uncomfortable.

Any diagnosis for this, doctor?

i have a confession to make. it makes me uncomfortable also.
i thinkg even professionals are uncomfortable if they do not have know if they are alive.
only difference is that they already prepare followup moves that will guarantee life.

reading is everything. always think how is my opponent attack my stone?
and have answer for that before that you start playing the sequence.

Kirby · **#287**

Magicwand wrote:

Kirby wrote:

Namely, I feel comfortable when I can easily "make a base" and have room to live on the side. Playing a stone just to split up the opponent - when I cannot guarantee a base for myself in the immediate area - is something that makes me feel, at the very least, uncomfortable.

Any diagnosis for this, doctor?

i have a confession to make. it makes me uncomfortable also.
i thinkg even professionals are uncomfortable if they do not have know if they are alive.
only difference is that they already prepare followup moves that will guarantee life.

reading is everything. always think how is my opponent attack my stone?
and have answer for that before that you start playing the sequence.

Thank you. That's a great answer.

Phelan · **#288**

Thanks for the great game, guys!

Tommie · **#289**

Magicwand wrote:

you can not tenuki lower right.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm51 black: 6 white: 4 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . X . . . X . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 8 . X . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . 7 . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . O O O . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . O O X X O X . . . X . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . X . X X O . O O X 9 . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . X . X O . X O O X . | $$ | . . . O . O . . X , X O . O O X X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . X O O O X X X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X X . O X O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

(...)

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm51 black: 6 white: 4 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . X . . . X . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 8 . X . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . 7 . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . O O O . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . O O X X O X . . . X . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . X . X X O . O O X 9 . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . X . X O . X O O X . | $$ | . . . O . O . . X , X O . O O X X 0 . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . X O O O X X X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X X . O X O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

I see no disadvantage for Black in the lower right corner
and :b8:

seems a good move.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm51 black: 6 white: 4 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . X . . . X . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . x B . X . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . y . . x . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . X . y . . x , . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . y . . 7 W . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . O O O . y 8 6 3 2 . | $$ | . . . . . . . O O X X O X . 5 4 X 1 . | $$ | . . X . . . . . X . X X O . O O X W . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . X . X O . X O O X . | $$ | . . . O . O . . X , X O . O O X X B . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . X O O O X X X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X X . O X O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wcm51 black: 6 white: 4 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . . X . . . X . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . x B . X . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . . . y . . x . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . X . y . . x , . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . y . . . W 5 . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . O O O . y . . 3 2 . | $$ | . . . . . . . O O X X O X c . 4 X 1 . | $$ | . . X . . . . . X . X X O d O O X W . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . X . X O . X O O X . | $$ | . . . O . O . . X , X O . O O X X B . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . X O O O X X X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X X b O X O b . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . a . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Magicwand vs. Kirby... Again

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