Whole-board Tesuji Problem

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Chew Terr
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Whole-board Tesuji Problem

Post by Chew Terr »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc White to play and kill something
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . O X X . . . X O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O O O X . . X . X O O . |
$$ | . O O . . . O O X X . . . . X X O . O |
$$ | O O O O . O O X . , . . . . . , X O O |
$$ | X O X X O O X X X X . . X X . . X X O |
$$ | X X X . X O O O O X X X X O X X . . X |
$$ | . . X X . X X O O O O O X O O X . . . |
$$ | . X . . X X X X X O . X O O . O X . . |
$$ | X . X X O X O . X . O X X O O O X . . |
$$ | X X O O O X O X . X X X . X O X . X X |
$$ | O O O X O O O X X . . X . X O X . X O |
$$ | . O X X O O X X . . X X X O . O X X O |
$$ | . O X X O X X . X X X X O O O . O O O |
$$ | O O . X X . . . X X O X O X O . O X . |
$$ | . O X X X X X X O O O O X X . O O O . |
$$ | O X X O X O O O . O O . O X . X O X O |
$$ | . O O O O O X . . . . O . X . X O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X X X O O |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . X X . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Saw this in a friend's game. The game ended here, but there is one tesuji for white.
Someday I want to be strong enough to earn KGS[-].
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Harleqin
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Re: Whole-board Tesuji Problem

Post by Harleqin »

White can capture two stones.
A good system naturally covers all corner cases without further effort.
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Re: Whole-board Tesuji Problem

Post by mw42 »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W White to play and kill something
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . O X X . . . X O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O O O X . . X . X O O . |
$$ | . O O . . . O O X X . . . . X X O . O |
$$ | O O O O . O O X . , . . . . . , X O O |
$$ | X O X X O O X X X X . . X X . . X X O |
$$ | X X X . X O O O O X X X X O X X . b X |
$$ | . . X X . X X O O O O O X O O X . . . |
$$ | . X . . X X X X X O . X O O . O X . . |
$$ | X . X X O X O . X . O X X O O O X . . |
$$ | X X O O O X O X . X X X . X O X Q X X |
$$ | O O O X O O O X X . . X . X O X a X O |
$$ | . O X X O O X X . . X X X O . O X X O |
$$ | . O X X O X X . X X X X O O O . O O O |
$$ | O O . X X . . . X X O X O X O . O X . |
$$ | . O X X X X X X O O O O X X . O O O . |
$$ | O X X O X O O O . O O . O X . X O X O |
$$ | . O O O O O X . . . . O . X . X O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X X X O O |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . X X . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Not sure I'd call :wt: a tesuji, but if black responds at (a) then W(b).
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Chew Terr
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Re: Whole-board Tesuji Problem

Post by Chew Terr »

Harleqin and mw: Yep, that's the one I was talking about. I thought it looked cool enough to show, not to mention that something similar could give the points I need to win, someday.
Someday I want to be strong enough to earn KGS[-].
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Re: Whole-board Tesuji Problem

Post by judicata »

I just read the subject and shuddered with fear.
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judicata
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Re: Whole-board Tesuji Problem

Post by judicata »

After actually looking at the problem, I realized worst fears are not manifest--i.e., it is not a tesuji problem that actually involves the whole board. :)
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W White to play and kill something
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . O X X . . . X O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O O O X . . X . X O O . |
$$ | . O O . . . O O X X . . . . X X O . O |
$$ | O O O O . O O X . , . . . . . , X O O |
$$ | X O X X O O X X X X . . X X . . X X O |
$$ | X X X . X O O O O X X X X O X X . 3 X |
$$ | . . X X . X X O O O O O X O O X . 5 4 |
$$ | . X . . X X X X X O . X O O . O X 7 6 |
$$ | X . X X O X O . X . O X X O O O X 9 8 |
$$ | X X O O O X O X . X X X . X O X 1 X X |
$$ | O O O X O O O X X . . X . X O X 2 X O |
$$ | . O X X O O X X . . X X X O . O X X O |
$$ | . O X X O X X . X X X X O O O . O O O |
$$ | O O . X X . . . X X O X O X O . O X . |
$$ | . O X X X X X X O O O O X X . O O O . |
$$ | O X X O X O O O . O O . O X . X O X O |
$$ | . O O O O O X . . . . O . X . X O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X X X O O |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . X X . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Of course, black just should give up the two stones, and play another move at 9 (so white can finish in sente). Then again, I didn't count, so it may be lost either way.
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Re: Whole-board Tesuji Problem

Post by dedroid »

thanks, that was an interesting problem. I found it really enjoyable.
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Bill Spight
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Re: Whole-board Tesuji Problem

Post by Bill Spight »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W White to play and kill something
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . O X X . . . X O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O O O X . . X . X O O . |
$$ | . O O . . . O O X X . . . . X X O . O |
$$ | O O O O . O O X . , . . . . . , X O O |
$$ | X O X X O O X X X X . . X X . . X X O |
$$ | X X X . X O O O O X X X X O X X . . X |
$$ | . . X X . X X O O O O O X O O X . . . |
$$ | . X . . X X X X X O . X O O . O X . . |
$$ | X . X X O X O . X . O X X O O O X 2 . |
$$ | X X O O O X O X . X X X . X O X 1 X X |
$$ | O O O X O O O X X . . X . X O X 3 X O |
$$ | . O X X O O X X . . X X X O . O X X O |
$$ | . O X X O X X . X X X X O O O . O O O |
$$ | O O . X X . . . X X O X O X O . O X . |
$$ | . O X X X X X X O O O O X X . O O O . |
$$ | O X X O X O O O . O O . O X . X O X O |
$$ | . O O O O O X . . . . O . X . X O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X X X O O |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . X X . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
¡Cuidado!
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W Oops!
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . O X X . . . X O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O O O X . . X . X O O . |
$$ | . O O . . . O O X X . . . . X X O . O |
$$ | O O O O . O O X . , . . . . . , X O O |
$$ | X O X X O O X X X X . . X X . . X X O |
$$ | X X X . X O O O O X X X X O X X . 1 X |
$$ | . . X X . X X O O O O O X O O X . 3 2 |
$$ | . X . . X X X X X O . X O O . O X 5 4 |
$$ | X . X X O X O . X . O X X O O O X X . |
$$ | X X O O O X O X . X X X . X O . O X X |
$$ | O O O X O O O X X . . X . X O . O X O |
$$ | . O X X O O X X . . X X X O . O X X O |
$$ | . O X X O X X . X X X X O O O . O O O |
$$ | O O . X X . . . X X O X O X O . O X . |
$$ | . O X X X X X X O O O O X X . O O O . |
$$ | O X X O X O O O . O O . O X . X O X O |
$$ | . O O O O O X . . . . O . X . X O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X X X O O |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . X X . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W Correct defense
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . O X X . . . X O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O O O X . . X . X O O . |
$$ | . O O . . . O O X X . . . . X X O . O |
$$ | O O O O . O O X . , . . . . . , X O O |
$$ | X O X X O O X X X X . . X X . . X X O |
$$ | X X X . X O O O O X X X X O X X . . X |
$$ | . . X X . X X O O O O O X O O X . . . |
$$ | . X . . X X X X X O . X O O . O X 2 . |
$$ | X . X X O X O . X . O X X O O O X . . |
$$ | X X O O O X O X . X X X . X O X 1 X X |
$$ | O O O X O O O X X . . X . X O X 3 X O |
$$ | . O X X O O X X . . X X X O . O X X O |
$$ | . O X X O X X . X X X X O O O . O O O |
$$ | O O . X X . . . X X O X O X O . O X . |
$$ | . O X X X X X X O O O O X X . O O O . |
$$ | O X X O X O O O . O O . O X . X O X O |
$$ | . O O O O O X . . . . O . X . X O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X X X O O |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . X X . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W Safe!
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . O X X . . . X O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O O O X . . X . X O O . |
$$ | . O O . . . O O X X . . . . X X O . O |
$$ | O O O O . O O X . , . . . . . , X O O |
$$ | X O X X O O X X X X . . X X . . X X O |
$$ | X X X . X O O O O X X X X O X X . 3 X |
$$ | . . X X . X X O O O O O X O O X . 5 4 |
$$ | . X . . X X X X X O . X O O . O X X 6 |
$$ | X . X X O X O . X . O X X O O O X 2 1 |
$$ | X X O O O X O X . X X X . X O . O X X |
$$ | O O O X O O O X X . . X . X O . O X O |
$$ | . O X X O O X X . . X X X O . O X X O |
$$ | . O X X O X X . X X X X O O O . O O O |
$$ | O O . X X . . . X X O X O X O . O X . |
$$ | . O X X X X X X O O O O X X . O O O . |
$$ | O X X O X O O O . O O . O X . X O X O |
$$ | . O O O O O X . . . . O . X . X O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X X X O O |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . X X . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W Correct play
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . O X X . . . X O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O O O X . . X . X O O . |
$$ | . O O . . . O O X X . . . . X X O . O |
$$ | O O O O . O O X . , . . . . . , X O O |
$$ | X O X X O O X X X X . . X X . . X X O |
$$ | X X X . X O O O O X X X X O X X . 1 X |
$$ | . . X X . X X O O O O O X O O X 8 3 2 |
$$ | . X . . X X X X X O . X O O . O X 5 4 |
$$ | X . X X O X O . X . O X X O O O X 0 6 |
$$ | X X O O O X O X . X X X . X O X 7 X X |
$$ | O O O X O O O X X . . X . X O X 9 X O |
$$ | . O X X O O X X . . X X X O . O X X O |
$$ | . O X X O X X . X X X X O O O . O O O |
$$ | O O . X X . . . X X O X O X O . O X . |
$$ | . O X X X X X X O O O O X X . O O O . |
$$ | O X X O X O O O . O O . O X . X O X O |
$$ | . O O O O O X . . . . O . X . X O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X X X O O |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . X X . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Edit:

Oops! I goofed.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W Correct play
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . O X X . . . X O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O O O X . . X . X O O . |
$$ | . O O . . . O O X X . . . . X X O . O |
$$ | O O O O . O O X . , . . . . . , X O O |
$$ | X O X X O O X X X X . . X X . . X X O |
$$ | X X X . X O O O O X X X X O X X a 1 X |
$$ | . . X X . X X O O O O O X O O X . 2 3 |
$$ | . X . . X X X X X O . X O O . O X . 4 |
$$ | X . X X O X O . X . O X X O O O X . . |
$$ | X X O O O X O X . X X X . X O X b X X |
$$ | O O O X O O O X X . . X . X O X . X O |
$$ | . O X X O O X X . . X X X O . O X X O |
$$ | . O X X O X X . X X X X O O O . O O O |
$$ | O O . X X . . . X X O X O X O . O X . |
$$ | . O X X X X X X O O O O X X . O O O . |
$$ | O X X O X O O O . O O . O X . X O X O |
$$ | . O O O O O X . . . . O . X . X O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X X X O O |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . X X . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
:w1: is the right way to start. Then :b2: is correct defense, leading to the ko.

It is after midnight. Maybe White can play at "a" and fight the ko. In fact, I am pretty sure of it. But I am going to bed, now. ;)

If :w1: is at "b", Black can capture the stone, and White has lost a ko threat.
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Joaz Banbeck
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Re: Whole-board Tesuji Problem

Post by Joaz Banbeck »

Chew Terr wrote:White to play and kill something
My solution:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . O X X . . . X O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O O O X . . X . X O O . |
$$ | . O O . . . O O X X . . . . X X O . O |
$$ | O O O O . O O X . , . . . . . , X O O |
$$ | X O X X O O X X X X . . X X . . X X O |
$$ | X X X . X O O O O X X X X O X X . . X |
$$ | . . X X . X X O O O O O X O O X . . . |
$$ | . X . . X X X X X O . X O O W O X . . |
$$ | X . X X O X O . X . O X X O O O X . . |
$$ | X X O O O X O X . X X X . X O X . X X |
$$ | O O O X O O O X X . . X . X O X . X O |
$$ | . O X X O O X X . . X X X O . O X X O |
$$ | . O X X O X X . X X X X O O O . O O O |
$$ | O O . X X . . . X X O X O X O . O X . |
$$ | . O X X X X X X O O O O X X . O O O . |
$$ | O X X O X O O O . O O . O X . X O X O |
$$ | . O O O O O X . . . . O . X . X O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X X X O O |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . X X . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
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topazg
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Re: Whole-board Tesuji Problem

Post by topazg »

Thank you all for showing me I should have spotted it :P
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Re: Whole-board Tesuji Problem

Post by entropi »

Joaz Banbeck wrote:
Chew Terr wrote:White to play and kill something
My solution:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . O X X . . . X O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O O O X . . X . X O O . |
$$ | . O O . . . O O X X . . . . X X O . O |
$$ | O O O O . O O X . , . . . . . , X O O |
$$ | X O X X O O X X X X . . X X . . X X O |
$$ | X X X . X O O O O X X X X O X X . . X |
$$ | . . X X . X X O O O O O X O O X . . . |
$$ | . X . . X X X X X O . X O O W O X . . |
$$ | X . X X O X O . X . O X X O O O X . . |
$$ | X X O O O X O X . X X X . X O X . X X |
$$ | O O O X O O O X X . . X . X O X . X O |
$$ | . O X X O O X X . . X X X O . O X X O |
$$ | . O X X O X X . X X X X O O O . O O O |
$$ | O O . X X . . . X X O X O X O . O X . |
$$ | . O X X X X X X O O O O X X . O O O . |
$$ | O X X O X O O O . O O . O X . X O X O |
$$ | . O O O O O X . . . . O . X . X O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X X X O O |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . X X . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

My solution:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . O X X . . . X O O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O O O X . . X . X O O . |
$$ | . O O . . . O O X X . . . . X X O . O |
$$ | O O O O . O O X . , . . . . . , X O O |
$$ | X O X X O O X X X X . . X X . . X X O |
$$ | X X X . X O O O O X X X X O X X . . X |
$$ | . . X X . X X O O O O O X O O X . . . |
$$ | . X . . X X X X X O . X O O . O X . . |
$$ | X . X X O X O . X . O X X O O O X . . |
$$ | X X O O O X O X . X X X . X O X . X X |
$$ | O O O X O O O X X . . X . X O X . X O |
$$ | . O X X O O X X . . X X X O . O X X O |
$$ | . O X X O X X . X X X X O O O . O O O |
$$ | O O . X X . . . X X O X O X O . O X . |
$$ | . O X X X X X X O O O O X X . O O O . |
$$ | O X X O X O O O . O O . O X . X O X O |
$$ | . O O O O O X . . . . O . X . X O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X X X O O |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . X X W |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
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Re: Whole-board Tesuji Problem

Post by robinz »

Well, if we're into suicidal moves now, surely S17 is the biggest one? (Assuming black takes advantage by playing T19, and we don't get into playing "losing go"...)
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Re: Whole-board Tesuji Problem

Post by entropi »

robinz wrote:Well, if we're into suicidal moves now, surely S17 is the biggest one? (Assuming black takes advantage by playing T19, and we don't get into playing "losing go"...)
I don't think s17 is bigger. t1 brings the black group back to life.
Ok, the problem was killing something but t1 kills the game :)
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Re: Whole-board Tesuji Problem

Post by robinz »

Good point - I'd somehow missed that :oops:
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Re: Whole-board Tesuji Problem

Post by Bill Spight »

An SGF file with variations. :)

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Visualize whirled peas.

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