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 Post subject: Re: 115 - robinz v. 1986
Post #101 Posted: Tue May 03, 2011 10:23 am 
Lives in gote

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Rank: KGS 9k
KGS: robinz
I don't mind having a break for a day (we've played pretty quickly anyway, compared to most Malkovich games), but feel free to post the co-ordinates if you've decided on your move. It would after all give me longer to think about mine ;-)

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 Post subject: Re: 115 - robinz v. 1986
Post #102 Posted: Fri May 06, 2011 8:05 am 
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Posts: 502
Location: Coloradao USA
Liked others: 50
Was liked: 12
Rank: malk-5k
KGS: go1986
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm72 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O X . . . . . . . O . O O O . |
$$ | . . . O . X . . . X . . . . X X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . X X . |
$$ | . . O . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X O O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X X . X X X . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X O X . . . . , O . X . . , X . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . X O O O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O O X X O O . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . O X O X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X X X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O . . O . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


i thought a lot about this move i was going to push
but i don't want his group strecthing out too much so I'm taking care of this pesky cutting stone and its back to business

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 Post subject: Re: 115 - robinz v. 1986
Post #103 Posted: Fri May 06, 2011 8:48 am 
Lives in gote

Posts: 414
Location: Durham, UK
Liked others: 96
Was liked: 15
Rank: KGS 9k
KGS: robinz
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm73 Prisoner Count: B-0 W-0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O X . . . . . . . O . O O O . |
$$ | . . . O . X . . . X . . . . X X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . X X . |
$$ | . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X O O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X X . X X X . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X O X . . . . , O . X . . , X . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . X O O O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O O X X O O . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . O X O X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X X X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . 1 . . . . . . . O . . O . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Well, once again, that's not a move I expected. I expected either a further push, or a one point jump to get ahead - in either of which cases I had plans to try to use the aji of that D13 stone to try to cut his wall off from his corner. I guess I won't get that now :sad: (The stone still has aji though - just a lot less; I probably won't get to use it, although I'll certainly be on the lookout for it.)

The obvious move now, since he hasn't continued to push, is to turn at H12. The trouble is, it's not clear that this would be sente anymore, or even particularly big (it's certainly moderately big, but I'm not sure it's big enough).

So, since I seem to have sente (I know my F11 group isn't yet definitively alive, but it's easy enough to make it so, or connect it to other living stones, that I think anything further there would be far too slow), I should take one of those invasions that I've been after for a long time. Now seems a good time for the 3-3 - it's a lot easier to pull off than an invasion on the side, and his thickness won't be worth very much at this stage of the game, when I have opportunities to reduce white's big lower area both from above and, perhaps, from the right. I must confess, I've never tried the 3-3 invasion in a 4-4 7-3 enclosure before, but I'm pretty sure it should live. Ideally I'll do so in sente (as in the standard 3-3 invasion with no other opposing stones around), but I don't expect that to be possible. (My preliminary reading has suggested to me that I'll live in gote, but I'll see what happens.) Nevertheless this is still a big move for this stage of the game, so I want it :D

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 Post subject: Re: 115 - robinz v. 1986
Post #104 Posted: Sat May 07, 2011 6:03 pm 
Lives in gote
User avatar

Posts: 502
Location: Coloradao USA
Liked others: 50
Was liked: 12
Rank: malk-5k
KGS: go1986
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm74 prisoner count B - 0 W - 0
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O X . . . . . . . O . O O O . |
$$ | . . . O . X . . . X . . . . X X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . X X . |
$$ | . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X O O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X X . X X X . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X O X . . . . , O . X . . , X . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . X O O O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O O X X O O . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . O X O X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X X X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X 1 . . . . . . O . . O . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

This is the correct side to block on the only move right now!

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standing still means going backwards

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 Post subject: Re: 115 - robinz v. 1986
Post #105 Posted: Sun May 08, 2011 2:56 am 
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KGS: Mnemonic, dude13
Since both players are around my strength I've been following this game and been wanting to comment on it but it's just been moving so fast :sad: Either way, it seems to have calmed down.
Can't say I agree with black’s last move.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm74 prisoner count B - 0 W - 0
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O X . . . . . . . O . O O O . |
$$ | . . . O . X . . . X . . . . X X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . X X . |
$$ | . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X O O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X X . X X X . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X O X . . . . , O . X . . , X . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . X O O O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O O X X O O . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . O X O X O . |
$$ | . 5 7 . . . . . . . . . . O X X X X . |
$$ | . 4 3 6 . . . . . . . . O X . . . . . |
$$ | . . 2 O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X 1 . . . . . . O . . O . . X . . |
$$ | . . 0 8 9 . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm84 prisoner count B - 0 W - 0
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O X . . . . . . . O . O O O . |
$$ | . . . O . X . . . X . . . . X X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . X X . |
$$ | . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X O O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X X . X X X . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X O X . . . . , O . X . . , X . . |
$$ | a . X . X . . . . . . . X O O O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O O X X O O . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . O X O X O . |
$$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . O X X X X . |
$$ | . X O B . . . . . . . . O X . . . . . |
$$ | 2 . X O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X O 1 . . . . . O . . O . . X . . |
$$ | . . X X O . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

Black :bc: is annoying but the white stones can link under at (a) as far as I can tell and he has a decent wall towards his influence. Black on the other hand just has a small corner. I would have probably played this:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm73 prisoner count B - 0 W - 0
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O X . . . . . . . O . O O O . |
$$ | . . . O . X . . . X . . . . X X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . X X . |
$$ | . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X O O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X X . X X X . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X O X . . . . , O . X . . , X . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . X O O O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O O X X O O . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . O X O X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X X X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O . . O . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

_________________
While I was teaching the game to a friend of mine, my mother from the other room:
"Cutting? Killing? Poking out eyes? What the hell are you playing?"

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Post #106 Posted: Sun May 08, 2011 3:22 am 
Honinbo
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Mnemonic,
Mnemonic wrote:
Can't say I agree with black’s last move.
It depends, partly, on the score. If B is ahead by taking 3-3 in sente, it can be a good choice. What's your count?

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 Post subject: Re: 115 - robinz v. 1986
Post #107 Posted: Sun May 08, 2011 4:22 am 
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@EdLee
I guess you’re right. My count says black is leading by roughly 35 points after the corner invasion but I didn't count the resulting moyo of white. I feel that this moyo is white’s last chance. If white gets the corner and black takes the side black has probably won. (Even if his side is smaller than whites corner because whites influence has gone to waste)
With this sequence I feel white still has a small chance.

_________________
While I was teaching the game to a friend of mine, my mother from the other room:
"Cutting? Killing? Poking out eyes? What the hell are you playing?"

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 Post subject: Re: 115 - robinz v. 1986
Post #108 Posted: Sun May 08, 2011 5:10 am 
Lives in gote

Posts: 414
Location: Durham, UK
Liked others: 96
Was liked: 15
Rank: KGS 9k
KGS: robinz
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm75 prisoner count B - 0 W - 0
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O X . . . . . . . O . O O O . |
$$ | . . . O . X . . . X . . . . X X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . X X . |
$$ | . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X O O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X X . X X X . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X O X . . . . , O . X . . , X . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . X O O O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O O X X O O . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . O X O X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X X X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . . . . |
$$ | . . 1 O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . O . . O . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


Not much choice here. Note that if white subsequently double hanes (which is clearly better for white than normal because of the 7-3 stone), I think I can get something out of this variation:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm75 prisoner count B - 0 W - 0
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O X . . . . . . . O . O O O . |
$$ | . . . O . X . . . X . . . . X X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . X X . |
$$ | . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X O O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X X . X X X . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X O X . . . . , O . X . . , X . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . X O O O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O O X X O O . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . O X O X O . |
$$ | . 4 6 . . . . . . . . . . O X X X X . |
$$ | . 3 2 5 . . . . . . . . O X . . . . . |
$$ | . . 1 O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . O . . O . . X . . |
$$ | . . . 7 . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


After the fate of this invasion becomes clear, I think we'll then be basically in the endgame :sad: (One of the things I dislike about go is how much of the game seems to be endgame, and I gather this becomes more and more true as one gets stronger.) I'll do a count then, but my preliminary counts seem to indicate that I'll be about 10-15 points behind in definite territory, so I think I'm going to have to play pretty aggressively.


@Mnemonic: sorry we were moving too fast for you to start with. I was a bit surprised at how quickly things were going myself! Hope you're not wincing too much at my terrible moves :lol:

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Post #109 Posted: Sun May 08, 2011 5:14 am 
Honinbo
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Mnemonic,
In your second variation ( :w1: changed to a tiger's mouth)...
suppose :w3: tenuki -- instead of W(a) -- then B(a) seems sente;
and did you consider the B(b-c-d) push-and-cut (and the resulting count)?
Also, how do you feel about W's two walls facing each other,
and the effect of the :bs: thickness on the (e) areas?
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W :w3: tenuki
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O X . . . . . . . O . O O O . |
$$ | . . . O . X . . . X . . . . X X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . X X . |
$$ | . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X O O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O # # . # # # . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . # O # . . . . , O . X . . , X . . |
$$ | . . # . # . . . . . c b X O O O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . d O O X X O O . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . O X O X O . |
$$ | . O O . . . . e . . . . . O X X X X . |
$$ | . X O X a . . . . . . . O X . . . . . |
$$ | 2 . X O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X O . 1 . . . . O . . O . . X . . |
$$ | . . X X O . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

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 Post subject: Re: 115 - robinz v. 1986
Post #110 Posted: Sun May 08, 2011 6:17 am 
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@EdLee
Quote:
In your second variation ( :w1: changed to a tiger's mouth)...
suppose :w3: tenuki -- instead of W(a) -- then B(a) seems sente;

That's why I played the solid connection in my variation :D But apparently white is not as thick as I thought (didn't think about your b-c-d variation, that just seems evil) And black is very strong up above (although I think e is a bit deep if you just play it without fist either a or b-c-d)
White really does seem on his last leg :sad: I wonder what robinz is counting?

So my question to you: If you see you win the game by invading at the 33 is it the right option because it is safer/less complicated than other moves like my 5-2? Or is blacks move just “good enough” in this game but not optimal (not saying my move is).

_________________
While I was teaching the game to a friend of mine, my mother from the other room:
"Cutting? Killing? Poking out eyes? What the hell are you playing?"

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 Post subject: Re: 115 - robinz v. 1986
Post #111 Posted: Sun May 08, 2011 6:45 am 
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Was liked: 12
Rank: malk-5k
KGS: go1986
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm76 Prisoner Count B - 0 W - 0
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O X . . . . . . . O . O O O . |
$$ | . . . O . X . . . X . . . . X X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . X X . |
$$ | . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X O O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X X . X X X . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X O X . . . . , O . X . . , X . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . X O O O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O O X X O O . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . O X O X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X X X X . |
$$ | . . 1 . . . . . . . . . O X . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . O . . O . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


I'm glad he went here now i don't gotta worry about the knights move and i dont gotta worry about him crawling up the side heading to his other group

*sigh of relief*

as far as this move it is also the only move

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 Post subject: Re: 115 - robinz v. 1986
Post #112 Posted: Sun May 08, 2011 6:58 am 
Lives in gote

Posts: 414
Location: Durham, UK
Liked others: 96
Was liked: 15
Rank: KGS 9k
KGS: robinz
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm77 Prisoner Count B - 0 W - 0
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O X . . . . . . . O . O O O . |
$$ | . . . O . X . . . X . . . . X X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . X X . |
$$ | . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X O O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X X . X X X . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X O X . . . . , O . X . . , X . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . X O O O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O O X X O O . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . O X O X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O X X X X . |
$$ | . 1 O . . . . . . . . . O X . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . O . . O . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


As expected. I really hope I manage not to die here. *looks around nervously, and makes note to look up the 3-3 invasion in this situation after the game* :study:

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 Post subject: Re: 115 - robinz v. 1986
Post #113 Posted: Sun May 08, 2011 8:09 am 
Lives in gote
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Posts: 502
Location: Coloradao USA
Liked others: 50
Was liked: 12
Rank: malk-5k
KGS: go1986
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm78 Prisoner Count B - 0 W - 0
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O X . . . . . . . O . O O O . |
$$ | . . . O . X . . . X . . . . X X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . X X . |
$$ | . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X O O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X X . X X X . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X O X . . . . , O . X . . , X . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . X O O O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O O X X O O . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . O X O X O . |
$$ | . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . O X X X X . |
$$ | . X O . . . . . . . . . O X . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . O . . O . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


This is a strong move I was going to connect but that's to timid 

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 Post subject: Re: 115 - robinz v. 1986
Post #114 Posted: Sun May 08, 2011 8:33 am 
Lives in gote

Posts: 414
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Liked others: 96
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Rank: KGS 9k
KGS: robinz
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm79 Prisoner Count B - 0 W - 0
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O X . . . . . . . O . O O O . |
$$ | . . . O . X . . . X . . . . X X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . X X . |
$$ | . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X O O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X X . X X X . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X O X . . . . , O . X . . , X . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . X O O O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O O X X O O . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . O X O X O . |
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . O X X X X . |
$$ | . X O 1 . . . . . . . . O X . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . O . . O . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


So it is the double hane. I really hope this works... (my reading suggests that it does, but there are a lot of variations here, so the probability of me having missed something is probably quite close to 1 :o)

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 Post subject: Re: 115 - robinz v. 1986
Post #115 Posted: Sun May 08, 2011 10:09 am 
Dies in gote

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KGS: Banaan
for observers:
Why the double hane? if I was white, i'd just extend. the corner doesnt get that much larger, and there's no cutting stone. The cutting stone looks awesome for b

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 Post subject: Re: 115 - robinz v. 1986
Post #116 Posted: Sun May 08, 2011 8:02 pm 
Lives in gote
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Posts: 502
Location: Coloradao USA
Liked others: 50
Was liked: 12
Rank: malk-5k
KGS: go1986
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm80 Prisoner Count B - 0 W - 0
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O X . . . . . . . O . O O O . |
$$ | . . . O . X . . . X . . . . X X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . X X . |
$$ | . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X O O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X X . X X X . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X O X . . . . , O . X . . , X . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . X O O O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O O X X O O . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . O X O X O . |
$$ | . O 1 . . . . . . . . . . O X X X X . |
$$ | . X O X . . . . . . . . O X . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . O . . O . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


I expected this move let the fighting begin 
My strategy is to play strong he has weak groups to push around :)

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 Post subject: Re: 115 - robinz v. 1986
Post #117 Posted: Sun May 08, 2011 9:38 pm 
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KGS: Aphelion02
For 1986 after game:
All of Black's groups are strong; there is nothing to push around.


This post by Aphelion was liked by: 1986
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 Post subject: Re: 115 - robinz v. 1986
Post #118 Posted: Mon May 09, 2011 12:42 am 
Lives in gote

Posts: 414
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Rank: KGS 9k
KGS: robinz
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm81 Prisoner Count B - 0 W - 0
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O X . . . . . . . O . O O O . |
$$ | . . . O . X . . . X . . . . X X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . X X . |
$$ | . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X O O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X X . X X X . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X O X . . . . , O . X . . , X . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . X O O O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O O X X O O . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . O X O X O . |
$$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . O X X X X . |
$$ | . X O X . . . . . . . . O X . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . O . . O . . X . . |
$$ | . . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


Here we go then. I think I get quite a good result here if black fights too much and tries too hard to kill the corner - but if he just plays solidly and defends on the outside I will have to come back and live in gote. (Which, at this fairly late stage of the game, I'm prepared to take.) But let's see :)

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Post #119 Posted: Mon May 09, 2011 1:42 am 
Honinbo
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Mnemonic,
Mnemonic wrote:
I think e is a bit deep
(e) was not a point; it was the general area, thus "(e) areas".
Mnemonic wrote:
If you see you win the game by invading at the 33
Yes, it'd be a very good candidate, unless I can find something else vastly superior to "winning". :mrgreen:

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 Post subject: Re: 115 - robinz v. 1986
Post #120 Posted: Mon May 09, 2011 9:04 pm 
Lives in gote
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Posts: 502
Location: Coloradao USA
Liked others: 50
Was liked: 12
Rank: malk-5k
KGS: go1986
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm82 Prisoner Count B - 0 W - 0
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O X . . . . . . . O . O O O . |
$$ | . . . O . X . . . X . . . . X X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . X X . |
$$ | . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X O O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . O X X . X X X . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X O X . . . . , O . X . . , X . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . X O O O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O O X X O O . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . O X O X O . |
$$ | . O O . . . . . . . . . . O X X X X . |
$$ | . X O X . . . . . . . . O X . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X O . 1 . . . . O . . O . . X . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


Interesting move the on space jump looks good alot better than a hane

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