Good ones ! I'm clearly unable to read them.

Very good ones! : ) The second one is really tricky because Black has to watch out for his own cutting points and liberties. The first is "kind of" straight forward in comparison ^^

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I would like to know how long people need to actually read a ladder across the board. Can you do it in under 30, 20, 15 or 10 seconds? (Honest answers are appreciated.) Are you actually reading ladders in blitz games? How long does it take if you want to resist against a ladder-breaker in a way that the ladder still works?

I found the second one easier to visualize, but it was still a couple tries before the lines added up correctly.

EDIT#2: I got the 2nd one wrong when visualizing ... More practice is required! I corrected myself when writing out my solutions.

The first one I had to restart 4 times ...

EDIT: in answer to tapir's question, a straight ladder across the board (with maybe one or two complications) takes me roughly 5-10 seconds to evaluate. I'm usually correct on these ones (I'd say 95% correct with a typical ladder). With the two just posted, I took about 30 seconds on the second one and about 2-3 minutes on the first one (I'm going to have to figure out why that was harder for me). In a game, I'd give myself a 60% chance to read either of those out correctly. Maybe if I spent more time reading the ladders out, I'd be better at getting them right.

I like these! I wouldn't say I'd see them in a game, though. I'm no ladder wizard (yet!).

Sol'ns?

I don't think this has happened to me. I mentally follow only the stones being laddered until I get near other stones, which may or may not be related.

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Nice problems, I did them both correctly but I would not say "effortlessly". Maybe I need to do more practice. Also, I misread a simple ladder in a tournament game last weekend (I was short on time and already in a losing position, though).

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Thanks for these problems. I liked the second one better a bit, but both were cool.

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Here is a nice one from Sakata's "Tesuji and Anti-suji of Go". I think that it also comes from a classical collection.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$W Black to play
$$ ------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . 2 7 . . . .
$$ | . . . . 3 1 X O . X . .
$$ | . . . X 6 X O X . , . .
$$ | . . . . . 5 O X . . . .
$$ | . . O . . . 4 . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . .[/go]

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Visualize whirled peas.

Everything with love. Stay safe.

You probably already have a copy of The Treasure-Chest Enigma in your collection? The essays in the first half are great for motivation, but the second half is nothing but bending ladder problems. I used to practice reading those and eventually started finding them in my games. I should look at it again...

My solution:


Addendum:

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Help make L19 more organized. Make an index: https://lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=5207

It might take me only a few seconds (few being within the 10-30 sec range), but it feels like an eternity, so if the clock is running, I usually just give up reading.

honest answer -- I'm too lazy to read ladders

The first three in this thread I solved mentally and checked them by playing them out in drago. The other two I solved by playing them out. Somehow I get too impatient too soon to solve them mentally.

After I had read Kageyama's Lessons over two years ago, I tried to apply reading ladders with some success. It won me some tournament games when I was around 15-16k.

As for the speed of reading ladders it strongly depends on the ladder itself. In the very most of the cases, you just "see" if the ladder works or not. If a move-by-move reading is necessary, I can read about three moves in two seconds when there are no enemy stones and about 1-2 seconds per move when there are.

If the ladder is very complicated as in one of the examples, and damezumari is involved, I usually fail to read the ladder.

Speaking of misreading ladders, I committed this sin in a game for the first time yesterday. I thought the ladder worked after his peep at , until he played and I realized I was wrong. However, I decided to go with it anyway and it all worked out okay . Though he probably could have won if he had played H12 anytime after white 103.

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