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 Post subject: Re: Buying some Go books, suggestions?
Post #21 Posted: Mon May 10, 2010 3:59 pm 
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azazil wrote:
Invincible is a wonderful book, but commentary (which is the reason you're buying it right?) is not for kyu players in my opinion.

I have heard kyu players have improved from this by replaying the games and reading the commentaries. Would you recommend other books with commentaries of professionals' matches?

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Post #22 Posted: Mon May 10, 2010 6:28 pm 
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Generally, no.

Most books on topics in go use pro games as examples, and provide commentary that way. So reading other go books often indirectly gives you commentary. Pro games are played at a very very high level, there's no way around it, so commentary on pro games tends to be inaccessible to weak players. Maybe some 5k-1k can get something out of it, but for ddk I think it's definitely a waste of time.

The KGS+ lectures aim at a mostly kyu player audience from what I can tell (though I don't subscribe to them), so they might be a good source of simplified commentary.

I'm not saying not to look at pro games, but I think the in depth analysis found in most commentaries is going to over the head of most kyu players most of the time.

- Az

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 Post subject: Re: Buying some Go books, suggestions?
Post #23 Posted: Tue May 11, 2010 12:42 am 
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azazil wrote:
Generally, no.

Most books on topics in go use pro games as examples, and provide commentary that way. So reading other go books often indirectly gives you commentary. Pro games are played at a very very high level, there's no way around it, so commentary on pro games tends to be inaccessible to weak players. Maybe some 5k-1k can get something out of it, but for ddk I think it's definitely a waste of time.

The KGS+ lectures aim at a mostly kyu player audience from what I can tell (though I don't subscribe to them), so they might be a good source of simplified commentary.

I'm not saying not to look at pro games, but I think the in depth analysis found in most commentaries is going to over the head of most kyu players most of the time.

- Az


I gained at least 5 stones just from playing through pro-games without commentaries. It helps you to recognize good shapes and such.

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 Post subject: Re: Buying some Go books, suggestions?
Post #24 Posted: Tue May 11, 2010 1:10 am 
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I know many players, who started to replay pro-matches in their SDK-range and became stronger, so I think, it's less about really understanding but more about seeing what is/which moves are possible in certain situations.

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Post #25 Posted: Wed May 12, 2010 9:58 pm 
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Thanks once again for all of the suggestions. I do play through professional games sometimes, but not as often as I should.

All of the books have arrived now (a few days ago, actually), and for anyone who's interested I wrote about how I will be using them here.

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Post #26 Posted: Thu May 13, 2010 7:07 am 
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I have had two different go instructors tell me to review pro games and imitate moves (i.e. good shape), even if I don't fully understand why. I have rejected this advice because I do not like to play moves without having any idea why. I also see moves criticized when when they the follow-up is poor because the person obviously didn't know why they made the move.

But, at a certain level (like mine) maybe this isn't such a terrible idea as long as you learn the "why" eventually. I'm still reluctant, though.

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Post #27 Posted: Thu May 13, 2010 10:41 am 
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judicata wrote:
I have had two different go instructors tell me to review pro games and imitate moves (i.e. good shape), even if I don't fully understand why. I have rejected this advice because I do not like to play moves without having any idea why. I also see moves criticized when when they the follow-up is poor because the person obviously didn't know why they made the move.

But, at a certain level (like mine) maybe this isn't such a terrible idea as long as you learn the "why" eventually. I'm still reluctant, though.


you do learn why eventually

and part of that learning may be making up your own reasons why as you review -- because you should never play a move without a reason, even if that reason is wrong. If the reason for your move is wrong, you'll soon learn why and have it corrected.

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