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Offline Numsgil
 Post subject: Numsgil (3k) vs perceval (7k) - Donut Board
Post #1 Posted: Fri Jan 27, 2012 11:26 am 
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c
$$ --------------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . . , . . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . - - - - - - - - - . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . - - - - - - - - - . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . - - - - - - - - - . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . - - - - - - - - - . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . - - - - - - - - - . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . - - - - - - - - - . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . - - - - - - - - - . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . - - - - - - - - - . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . - - - - - - - - - . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . . , . . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ --------------------------------------------[/go]


Even game. I'll say 6.5 komi. Here's my nigiri:
:white: :white:


Good luck!

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Offline EdLee
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Post #2 Posted: Fri Jan 27, 2012 5:02 pm 
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Offline perceval
 Post subject: Re: Numsgil (3k) vs perceval (7k) - Donut Board
Post #3 Posted: Sat Jan 28, 2012 2:34 pm 
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good game numsgil; i was looking for this thread on the malko forums :-?

nigiri: even

Edit: i guessed right so i take Black;

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ --------------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . . , . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . - - - - - - - - - . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . - - - - - - - - - . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . - - - - - - - - - . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . - - - - - - - - - . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . - - - - - - - - - . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . - - - - - - - - - . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . - - - - - - - - - . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . - - - - - - - - - . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . - - - - - - - - - . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . . , . . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ --------------------------------------------[/go]




i never played 5-4 on a normal board, but here i'll try as the sides are a bit bigger than 19x19;
random thoughts on the board: maybe here walls must be used for territory :

consider the sans san invasion joseki:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ | . . . . . . - - - - - - - - - . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 7 . . . - - - - - - - - - . . . . . . |
$$ | . 6 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 4 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 2 B . . . . . . , . . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . W 1 . a . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 0 8 9 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ --------------------------------------------[/go]


there is nothing to attack on the center for the B wall , it does not offer a place to run for stones on the other side of the board.
on the other hand,enclosing a territory on the bottom seems easy. (or going for the kill if W invade the bottom)

Here i think i'll try for 6 stones high territory as much as possible maybe a 3rd line stone + 5th line stone are enough to sketch a big territory ??

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c almost territory up to the 6th line? is this worth 54 pt of territory ?
$$ | . . . . . . - - - - - - - - - . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . - - - - - - - - - . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . B . . . . . . . . . B . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . B . . . . a . . . . B . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ --------------------------------------------[/go]

Can :black: i kill an invasion at a on the diag above ??

i wonder the value of playing on the inner corners ???
it might be a usefule reduction foothold if you want to reduce a side:


i repost the diag i posted on the first thread:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c hard to invade ?
$$ | . . . . . . - - - - - - - - - . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . - - - - - - - - - . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . B . . . . . . . . . B . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . B . . . . . . B . . . . . . B . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ --------------------------------------------[/go]


changing the color of one of the inner corners seems big:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c easy to reduce ??
$$ | . . . . . . - - - - - - - - - . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . - - - - - - - - - . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . W . . . . . . . . . B . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . B . . . . . . B . . . . . . B . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ --------------------------------------------[/go]


does that mean i want to play on them early ? even before an approach (i dont think so for now)?? i wonder

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Offline Numsgil
 Post subject: Re: Numsgil (3k) vs perceval (7k) - Donut Board
Post #4 Posted: Sat Jan 28, 2012 3:35 pm 
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Ah, sorry, I wasn't sure if it would be strictly proper in the main malkovich forum.

...

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm2
$$ --------------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . . , . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . - - - - - - - - - . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . - - - - - - - - - . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . - - - - - - - - - . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . - - - - - - - - - . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . - - - - - - - - - . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . - - - - - - - - - . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . - - - - - - - - - . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . - - - - - - - - - . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . - - - - - - - - - . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . . , . . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ --------------------------------------------[/go]


When I first thought about this board I was guessing that you'd need to play very territorially. But the "ceiling" edge works very well with influence, too. So any corner opening that's reasonable on a 19x19 works here, too, I think.

The joseki won't always work, though. Specifically, I can't say I like this for black:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm2
$$ | . . . . . . - - - - -
$$ | . . . . . . - - - - -
$$ | . . . 8 . . - - - - -
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . 5 . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . 2 4 . . . . . ,
$$ | . . 1 3 6 . . 7 . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ ------------------------[/go]


That "feels" pretty natural for black, though. So he might play it.

The sides are interesting here, too. It's not too hard for one player to block them off entirely, and effectively cut the whole side in two. So moyos become a real possibility.

In terms of my opponent's move: he's aiming for a moyo no doubt. I like making sabaki in enemy moyos, so this suits me just fine.

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Offline hyperpape
 Post subject: Re: Numsgil (3k) vs perceval (7k) - Donut Board
Post #5 Posted: Sat Jan 28, 2012 5:36 pm 
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm
$$ | . . . . . . - - - - -
$$ | . . . . . . - - - - -
$$ | . . . B . . - - - - -
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . B B . . . . . ,
$$ | . . O O B . . O . 1 .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ ------------------------[/go]
Probably it's too small to play so close, but on this board, the lone white stone is begging to be attacked.

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Offline Celebrir
 Post subject: Re: Numsgil (3k) vs perceval (7k) - Donut Board
Post #6 Posted: Sun Jan 29, 2012 5:22 am 
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No escape into the middle... Like hyperpape's diagram shows, pincer will become very strong and I guess invasion will become difficult. Maybe some kind of 3rd line moyo strategy would be best ? Oo
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Offline perceval
 Post subject: Re: Numsgil (3k) vs perceval (7k) - Donut Board
Post #7 Posted: Sun Jan 29, 2012 1:32 pm 
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[go]$$Bcm3
$$ --------------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 1 . . . . . . , . . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . - - - - - - - - - . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . - - - - - - - - - . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . - - - - - - - - - . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . - - - - - - - - - . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . - - - - - - - - - . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . - - - - - - - - - . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . - - - - - - - - - . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . - - - - - - - - - . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . - - - - - - - - - . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . . , . . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ --------------------------------------------[/go]


well not much to hide, i guess he will take the last corner and then no idea; i am not a big fan of his 3-3 because the board is larger than 19x19; i think corner approaches are difficult because of the pincer josekis mentioned by shapeandaji in the orig thread so i think i plan to split his side; a 3-3 will help that i think

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Offline Numsgil
 Post subject: Re: Numsgil (3k) vs perceval (7k) - Donut Board
Post #8 Posted: Sun Jan 29, 2012 2:23 pm 
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm4
$$ --------------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . , . . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . - - - - - - - - - . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . - - - - - - - - - . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . - - - - - - - - - . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . - - - - - - - - - . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . - - - - - - - - - . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . - - - - - - - - - . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . - - - - - - - - - . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . - - - - - - - - - . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . - - - - - - - - - . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . . , . . . . . . 1 . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ --------------------------------------------[/go]


Nothing crazy.

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Offline EdLee
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Post #9 Posted: Sun Jan 29, 2012 9:59 pm 
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The D4 star point disappeared since :w2:. :)
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Offline Numsgil
 Post subject: Re: Numsgil (3k) vs perceval (7k) - Donut Board
Post #10 Posted: Mon Jan 30, 2012 1:14 am 
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It looks like it's there to me? (Unless someone went in to ninja them back).

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Offline perceval
 Post subject: Re: Numsgil (3k) vs perceval (7k) - Donut Board
Post #11 Posted: Mon Jan 30, 2012 6:18 am 
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm5
$$ --------------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . 1 . . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . - - - - - - - - - . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . - - - - - - - - - . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . - - - - - - - - - . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . - - - - - - - - - . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . - - - - - - - - - . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . - - - - - - - - - . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . - - - - - - - - - . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . - - - - - - - - - . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . - - - - - - - - - . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . . , . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ --------------------------------------------[/go]

i was about to complete the shimari on top... but then a splitting move would be natural for W. So here i play on the middle, i try to induce it to come around S19. reasonning is that i hope that i'll be able to surround W in the top right corner and transform the whole top (minus top right corner) in territory
for example:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm5 shaded area is expected territory
$$ --------------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? 7 6 8 . . . |
$$ | . . . . ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? 9 ? 3 2 . . . |
$$ | . . . X ? ? ? ? ? ? 1 ? ? ? ? ? 5 4 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . - - - - - - - - - . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . - - - - - - - - - . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . - - - - - - - - - . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . - - - - - - - - - . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . - - - - - - - - - . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . - - - - - - - - - . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . - - - - - - - - - . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . - - - - - - - - - . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . - - - - - - - - - . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . . , . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ --------------------------------------------[/go]


(i dont really know much about 5-4 joseki)
i consider the 6th line territory as a bonus due to the shape of the board.
Well its proably crasy ramblings at this point :scratch: we ll see
[Hide]

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Offline Numsgil
 Post subject: Re: Numsgil (3k) vs perceval (7k) - Donut Board
Post #12 Posted: Mon Jan 30, 2012 2:19 pm 
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm6
$$ --------------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . X . . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . - - - - - - - - - . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . - - - - - - - - - . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . - - - - - - - - - . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . - - - - - - - - - . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . - - - - - - - - - . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . - - - - - - - - - . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . - - - - - - - - - . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . - - - - - - - - - . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . - - - - - - - - - . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . . , . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ --------------------------------------------[/go]


Biggest move: asymmetric corner.

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Offline hyperpape
 Post subject: Re: Numsgil (3k) vs perceval (7k) - Donut Board
Post #13 Posted: Mon Jan 30, 2012 3:00 pm 
Tengen

Posts: 4382
Location: Caldas da Rainha, Portugal
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm6
$$ --------------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . X . . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . - - - - - - - - - . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . - - - - - - - - - . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . - - - - - - - - - . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . - - - - - - - - - . . . 1 . . |
$$ | . . . , . . - - - - - - - - - . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . - - - - - - - - - . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . - - - - - - - - - . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . - - - - - - - - - . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . - - - - - - - - - . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . . , . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ --------------------------------------------[/go]


I wonder if something like this is bigger. It is hard to invade, I think.

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Offline perceval
 Post subject: Re: Numsgil (3k) vs perceval (7k) - Donut Board
Post #14 Posted: Mon Jan 30, 2012 3:46 pm 
Lives in gote
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Posts: 312
Liked others: 52
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Rank: 7K KGS
KGS: tictac
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm7
$$ --------------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 O . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . X . . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . - - - - - - - - - . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . - - - - - - - - - . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . - - - - - - - - - . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . - - - - - - - - - . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . - - - - - - - - - . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . - - - - - - - - - . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . - - - - - - - - - . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . - - - - - - - - - . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . - - - - - - - - - . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . . , . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ --------------------------------------------[/go]


according to the 'grab the top'plan

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Offline Numsgil
 Post subject: Re: Numsgil (3k) vs perceval (7k) - Donut Board
Post #15 Posted: Mon Jan 30, 2012 4:33 pm 
Lives in gote
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm8
$$ --------------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . X . . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . - - - - - - - - - . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . - - - - - - - - - . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . - - - - - - - - - . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . - - - - - - - - - . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . - - - - - - - - - . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . - - - - - - - - - . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . - - - - - - - - - . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . - - - - - - - - - . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . - - - - - - - - - . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . . , . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ --------------------------------------------[/go]


I don't actually know any 5-3 joseki. :P

This is what I'm thinking:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1
$$ ----------------------
$$ . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . b 1 4 a . . |
$$ . . . . . 3 X O . . . |
$$ X . . . . . 2 , . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ - - - - - . . . . . . |
$$ - - - - - . . . . . . |
$$ - - - - - . . . . . . |
$$ - - - - - . . . . . . |
$$ - - - - - . . , . . . |[/go]


Then I have to decide between 'a' and 'b'. 'a' takes the corner, but I really don't like the thickness black gets as a result. 'b' aims at making a base along the top side in gote, and giving black the corner, but it's a large corner at the end of the day, and harassing the group is quite good for black.

So I'm leaning towards 'a'.

If 4 is on the other side, I take the ponnuki facing the top with no hesitation.

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Offline perceval
 Post subject: Re: Numsgil (3k) vs perceval (7k) - Donut Board
Post #16 Posted: Tue Jan 31, 2012 3:48 am 
Lives in gote
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Posts: 312
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KGS: tictac
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm9
$$ --------------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . X . . . . . 1 , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . - - - - - - - - - . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . - - - - - - - - - . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . - - - - - - - - - . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . - - - - - - - - - . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . - - - - - - - - - . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . - - - - - - - - - . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . - - - - - - - - - . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . - - - - - - - - - . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . - - - - - - - - - . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . . , . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ --------------------------------------------[/go]

cant let him atari there. i think

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Offline Celebrir
 Post subject: Re: Numsgil (3k) vs perceval (7k) - Donut Board
Post #17 Posted: Tue Jan 31, 2012 5:03 am 
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm10
$$ --------------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 O 2 3 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 6 1 X O 9 . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . X . . . . a X , 8 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . - - - - - - - - - . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . - - - - - - - - - . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . - - - - - - - - - . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . - - - - - - - - - . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . - - - - - - - - - . . , a . . |
$$ | . . . . . . - - - - - - - - - . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . - - - - - - - - - . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . - - - - - - - - - . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . - - - - - - - - - . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 7 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . . , . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ --------------------------------------------[/go]


Is this good for W ? The main problem I have with this joseki is that it seems like black never will have to take the stone with 'a'. Therefore I tried to equalize with a tennuki. I'm not sure where the biggest move is but :w16: looks okay ? Or is 'a' more important ?
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Offline Numsgil
 Post subject: Re: Numsgil (3k) vs perceval (7k) - Donut Board
Post #18 Posted: Tue Jan 31, 2012 10:29 am 
Lives in gote
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Rank: 1 Kyu KGS
KGS: Numsgil
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm10
$$ --------------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 X O . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . X . . . . . X , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . - - - - - - - - - . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . - - - - - - - - - . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . - - - - - - - - - . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . - - - - - - - - - . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . - - - - - - - - - . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . - - - - - - - - - . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . - - - - - - - - - . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . - - - - - - - - - . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . - - - - - - - - - . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . . , . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ --------------------------------------------[/go]


Still not all that sold on this line, but I don't see anything I like better.

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Offline hyperpape
 Post subject: Re: Numsgil (3k) vs perceval (7k) - Donut Board
Post #19 Posted: Tue Jan 31, 2012 10:35 am 
Tengen

Posts: 4382
Location: Caldas da Rainha, Portugal
Liked others: 499
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Rank: AGA 3k
GD Posts: 65
OGS: Hyperpape 4k
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm10
$$ --------------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . X . . . . . X , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . - - - - - - - - - . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . - - - - - - - - - . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . - - - - - - - - - . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . - - - - - - - - - . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . - - - - - - - - - . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . - - - - - - - - - . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . - - - - - - - - - . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . - - - - - - - - - . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . - - - - - - - - - . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . . , . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ --------------------------------------------[/go]


I think being low on this board is fine.

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Offline Tryss
 Post subject: Re: Numsgil (3k) vs perceval (7k) - Donut Board
Post #20 Posted: Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:06 am 
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hyperpape wrote:
I think being low on this board is fine.

Nearly all intersection are on the 3rd line or lower : you can't be high :mrgreen:
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