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Offline tchan001
 Post subject: 7k tsumego from a Japanese tsumego book
Post #1 Posted: Sun Apr 01, 2012 10:30 am 
Gosei
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ----------------+
$$ . . . . . . . . |
$$ . O O X . X . . |
$$ . . . O . X X . |
$$ . . O . O X O . |
$$ . . . . O O O . |
$$ . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . |[/go]

Black to move
What is the status of the black group given the optimal sequence of play?

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Offline RBerenguel
 Post subject: Re: 7k tsumego from a Japanese tsumego book
Post #2 Posted: Sun Apr 01, 2012 10:54 am 
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I see ways for white to kill, but there can always be traps I can't read... I am pretty sure black can kill easily :D

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Offline tj86430
 Post subject: Re: 7k tsumego from a Japanese tsumego book
Post #3 Posted: Sun Apr 01, 2012 11:32 am 
Gosei

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I didn't find a way for black to live.

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Offline karaklis
 Post subject: Re: 7k tsumego from a Japanese tsumego book
Post #4 Posted: Sun Apr 01, 2012 11:33 am 
Lives in sente
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Nice problem.
I cannot see that w can do anything after b p19. If w tries to make ko or seki, then this happens:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ----------------+
$$ . . . 1 . 7 4 . |
$$ . O O X 6 X 5 2 |
$$ . . . O . X X 3 |
$$ . . O . O X O . |
$$ . . . . O O O . |
$$ . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . |[/go]

Black lives by oshitsubushi


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ----------------+
$$ . . . 1 7 6 4 . |
$$ . O O X . X 5 2 |
$$ . . . O . X X 3 |
$$ . . O . O X O . |
$$ . . . . O O O . |
$$ . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . |[/go]

again oshitsubushi


Well, obviously I got it wrong. Never mind. ;-)


Last edited by karaklis on Sun Apr 01, 2012 11:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Offline Wildclaw
 Post subject: Re: 7k tsumego from a Japanese tsumego book
Post #5 Posted: Sun Apr 01, 2012 2:16 pm 
Dies in gote

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tchan001 wrote:
What is the status of the black group given the optimal sequence of play?


I am a bit out of shape, but I think the optimal sequence goes like this.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ----------------+
$$ . . 6 1 7 3 2 . |
$$ . O O X 4 X . 8 |
$$ . . . O 5 X X 9 |
$$ . . O . O X O 0 |
$$ . . . . O O O . |
$$ . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . |[/go]

1. Standard way to live with this shape by expanding eye space
2. Key move aiming to remove the Q18 eye
3. Only way for black to protect
4. But now white has time to throw in
5-7. Black has no choice but to capture
8-0. Giving white the opportunity to fill all the outside liberties.
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Offline tchan001
 Post subject: Re: 7k tsumego from a Japanese tsumego book
Post #6 Posted: Sun Apr 01, 2012 6:06 pm 
Gosei
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Good job Wildclaw. Actually the book solution ends with 3 and says something about Black living (althought it doesn't have the word seki anywhere in the explanation), but the sequence you have is the one I arrived at as well.

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Offline Bill Spight
 Post subject: Re: 7k tsumego from a Japanese tsumego book
Post #7 Posted: Sun Apr 01, 2012 8:34 pm 
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Wildclaw wrote:
tchan001 wrote:
What is the status of the black group given the optimal sequence of play?


I am a bit out of shape, but I think the optimal sequence goes like this.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ----------------+
$$ . . 6 1 7 3 2 . |
$$ . O O X 4 X . 8 |
$$ . . . O 5 X X 9 |
$$ . . O . O X O 0 |
$$ . . . . O O O . |
$$ . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . |[/go]

1. Standard way to live with this shape by expanding eye space
2. Key move aiming to remove the Q18 eye
3. Only way for black to protect
4. But now white has time to throw in
5-7. Black has no choice but to capture
8-0. Giving white the opportunity to fill all the outside liberties.


White can usually omit :w10:, as it is gote. :) He can also probably save :w2: as a potential ko threat.

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