It is currently Wed May 14, 2025 3:35 pm

View unanswered posts | View active topics View unread posts | View new posts | View your posts


Board index » Improve Your Game » Study Group

All times are UTC - 8 hours [ DST ]



Post new topic Reply to topic  Page 1 of 1
  [ 7 posts ] 
  Print view Previous topic | Next topic 
Author Message
Offline tchan001
 Post subject: 7k tsumego from a Japanese tsumego book
Post #1 Posted: Sun Apr 01, 2012 10:30 am 
Gosei
User avatar

Posts: 1582
Location: Hong Kong
Liked others: 54
Was liked: 544
GD Posts: 1292
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ----------------+
$$ . . . . . . . . |
$$ . O O X . X . . |
$$ . . . O . X X . |
$$ . . O . O X O . |
$$ . . . . O O O . |
$$ . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . |[/go]

Black to move
What is the status of the black group given the optimal sequence of play?

_________________
http://tchan001.wordpress.com
A blog on Asian go books, go sightings, and interesting tidbits
Go is such a beautiful game.
Top
 Profile  
 
Offline RBerenguel
 Post subject: Re: 7k tsumego from a Japanese tsumego book
Post #2 Posted: Sun Apr 01, 2012 10:54 am 
Gosei
User avatar

Posts: 1585
Location: Barcelona, Spain (GMT+1)
Liked others: 577
Was liked: 298
Rank: KGS 5k
KGS: RBerenguel
Tygem: rberenguel
Wbaduk: JohnKeats
Kaya handle: RBerenguel
Online playing schedule: KGS on Saturday I use to be online, but I can be if needed from 20-23 GMT+1
I see ways for white to kill, but there can always be traps I can't read... I am pretty sure black can kill easily :D

_________________
Geek of all trades, master of none: the motto for my blog mostlymaths.net
Top
 Profile  
 
Offline tj86430
 Post subject: Re: 7k tsumego from a Japanese tsumego book
Post #3 Posted: Sun Apr 01, 2012 11:32 am 
Gosei

Posts: 1348
Location: Finland
Liked others: 49
Was liked: 129
Rank: FGA 7k GoR 1297
I didn't find a way for black to live.

_________________
Offending ad removed
Top
 Profile  
 
Offline karaklis
 Post subject: Re: 7k tsumego from a Japanese tsumego book
Post #4 Posted: Sun Apr 01, 2012 11:33 am 
Lives in sente
User avatar

Posts: 796
Liked others: 93
Was liked: 105
GD Posts: 600
Nice problem.
I cannot see that w can do anything after b p19. If w tries to make ko or seki, then this happens:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ----------------+
$$ . . . 1 . 7 4 . |
$$ . O O X 6 X 5 2 |
$$ . . . O . X X 3 |
$$ . . O . O X O . |
$$ . . . . O O O . |
$$ . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . |[/go]

Black lives by oshitsubushi


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ----------------+
$$ . . . 1 7 6 4 . |
$$ . O O X . X 5 2 |
$$ . . . O . X X 3 |
$$ . . O . O X O . |
$$ . . . . O O O . |
$$ . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . |[/go]

again oshitsubushi


Well, obviously I got it wrong. Never mind. ;-)


Last edited by karaklis on Sun Apr 01, 2012 11:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Top
 Profile  
 
Offline Wildclaw
 Post subject: Re: 7k tsumego from a Japanese tsumego book
Post #5 Posted: Sun Apr 01, 2012 2:16 pm 
Dies in gote

Posts: 29
Liked others: 3
Was liked: 4
Rank: KGS 2 kyu
GD Posts: 543
tchan001 wrote:
What is the status of the black group given the optimal sequence of play?


I am a bit out of shape, but I think the optimal sequence goes like this.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ----------------+
$$ . . 6 1 7 3 2 . |
$$ . O O X 4 X . 8 |
$$ . . . O 5 X X 9 |
$$ . . O . O X O 0 |
$$ . . . . O O O . |
$$ . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . |[/go]

1. Standard way to live with this shape by expanding eye space
2. Key move aiming to remove the Q18 eye
3. Only way for black to protect
4. But now white has time to throw in
5-7. Black has no choice but to capture
8-0. Giving white the opportunity to fill all the outside liberties.
Top
 Profile  
 
Offline tchan001
 Post subject: Re: 7k tsumego from a Japanese tsumego book
Post #6 Posted: Sun Apr 01, 2012 6:06 pm 
Gosei
User avatar

Posts: 1582
Location: Hong Kong
Liked others: 54
Was liked: 544
GD Posts: 1292
Good job Wildclaw. Actually the book solution ends with 3 and says something about Black living (althought it doesn't have the word seki anywhere in the explanation), but the sequence you have is the one I arrived at as well.

_________________
http://tchan001.wordpress.com
A blog on Asian go books, go sightings, and interesting tidbits
Go is such a beautiful game.
Top
 Profile  
 
Offline Bill Spight
 Post subject: Re: 7k tsumego from a Japanese tsumego book
Post #7 Posted: Sun Apr 01, 2012 8:34 pm 
Honinbo

Posts: 10905
Liked others: 3651
Was liked: 3374
Wildclaw wrote:
tchan001 wrote:
What is the status of the black group given the optimal sequence of play?


I am a bit out of shape, but I think the optimal sequence goes like this.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ----------------+
$$ . . 6 1 7 3 2 . |
$$ . O O X 4 X . 8 |
$$ . . . O 5 X X 9 |
$$ . . O . O X O 0 |
$$ . . . . O O O . |
$$ . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . |[/go]

1. Standard way to live with this shape by expanding eye space
2. Key move aiming to remove the Q18 eye
3. Only way for black to protect
4. But now white has time to throw in
5-7. Black has no choice but to capture
8-0. Giving white the opportunity to fill all the outside liberties.


White can usually omit :w10:, as it is gote. :) He can also probably save :w2: as a potential ko threat.

_________________
The Adkins Principle:
At some point, doesn't thinking have to go on?
— Winona Adkins

Visualize whirled peas.

Everything with love. Stay safe.
Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  Page 1 of 1
  [ 7 posts ] 

Board index » Improve Your Game » Study Group

All times are UTC - 8 hours [ DST ]

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot] and 1 guest

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group