24. Tabemasu (7d) vs. Araban (5d)

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Solomon
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24. Tabemasu (7d) vs. Araban (5d)

Post by Solomon »

Hello everyone! This will be a game between Gus (Tabemasu) 7d and I. We've decided on a reduced handicap of no-komi for me taking Black. Gus and I have brushed shoulders in various tournaments and Congresses, BUT we've never actually had a chance to talk, let alone play (even online...I think) :(. So hopefully this will be a great opportunity for both of us! GL HF Gus :D.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c Move 1
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$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


No video for now (I'm typing this in-between classes, I just finished a Probability exam 30 minutes early...feels bad man).

For the first move, it's always really a coin flip between the 4-4 or the 3-4 for me. Both are very common in all levels of Go, from the players who just played their first game to the highest-class professionals. The only aspect where a 3-4 bests the 4-4 is that it has a greater history. It's a shame that, when it comes to the history and cultural aspects of Go, I am about a 20k :(. However, if my knowledge is correct, it was Go Seigen who pioneered the widespread usage of the 4-4; senseis also says:
Only in the twentieth century, and especially with the introduction of komi, did it begin to rival 3-4 point and 3-5 point openings as a common corner move.
Anyways, on the board each have their pros and cons. The general jist is that, the 3-4 is more territorial and the 4-4 is more influential. This is because the 4-4 leaves open the 3-3 for invasion at any time, allowing Black to live cleanly. However, the timing behind the invasion is essential because if it's played too soon, then the thickness I get outweighs in value the corner territory that Black would get. Even in this simple invasion there are a wealth of variations to discover, some of which you can find here: http://senseis.xmp.net/?33PointInvasion

And for those who'd like to know more about the 3-4 and 4-4 points in general, once again the senseis articles are excellent: http://senseis.xmp.net/?34Point and http://senseis.xmp.net/?44Point

I'll try not to refer to articles so much :).
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Re: Tabemasu vs. Araban : Malkovich #24

Post by Kirby »

Looking forward to this game 8-)
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Re: Tabemasu vs. Araban : Malkovich #24

Post by Tabemasu »

Well, I guess he sort of introduced me in his post, so no need to I guess :).
Have a good game!


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c Move 2
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$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Lately I've been playing large scale moyo style games so I think this game should be entertaining at least! Not really much to say early on, I hope you enjoy this!
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Re: Tabemasu vs. Araban : Malkovich #24

Post by Solomon »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c Move 3
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$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , B . . |
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$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

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Re: Tabemasu vs. Araban : Malkovich #24

Post by Tabemasu »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c Move 4
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$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Blacks opening is unexpected. The reason is because if I approach either of his komokus around a or b, the direction is excellent for white. It's a little unreasonable to expect I won't get at least one.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c
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$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


If the game had been played like below, after 3 the direction of his komoku at 1 is better.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c
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$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 . . . . |
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$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Anyway, black 3 is quite uncommon! Perhaps he has some special strategy in mind for me :D
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Re: Tabemasu vs. Araban : Malkovich #24

Post by Violence »

I've been waiting for a match like this.
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Re: Tabemasu vs. Araban : Malkovich #24

Post by Kirby »

Araban wrote:


I was hoping that there'd be more of an explanation of the reason behind playing :b3:, especially due to Tabemasu's comments about it, but the only reason I could find was because it "looks cool" and because it shows up in some pro games.
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Re: Tabemasu vs. Araban : Malkovich #24

Post by ChradH »

Kirby wrote:
Araban wrote:

I was hoping that there'd be more of an explanation of the reason behind playing :b3:, especially due to Tabemasu's comments about it, but the only reason I could find was because it "looks cool" and because it shows up in some pro games.

From some players' comments in other Malkovich games I already got the impression that people tend to play a bit more 'for the audience' than their normal style. This may be an understandable reaction when the whole internet is staring over your shoulder :D But on the other hand, especially black might get more out of the game analysis if his normal moves get commented (and/or punished).
To sig or not to sig, that is the question.
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Re: Tabemasu vs. Araban : Malkovich #24

Post by Solomon »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c Move 5
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
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$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . B . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q5TjSFbCsqg
Last edited by Solomon on Sun Apr 25, 2010 11:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Tabemasu vs. Araban : Malkovich #24

Post by Tabemasu »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c Move 6
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
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$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
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$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I expect he will play the mini chinese next, in which case I will take the big point I talked about last time at 2. If this happens then it looks like it might be a moyo game.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
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$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . 2 , X . . |
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$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . 1 . . . . . . . . |
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$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Sorry I don't have a lot to say yet, I'm sure I will later. :)
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Re: Tabemasu vs. Araban : Malkovich #24

Post by Joaz Banbeck »

Sol,

The video for #5 sometimes does not load, and sometimes generates errors.
Help make L19 more organized. Make an index: https://lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=5207
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Re: Tabemasu vs. Araban : Malkovich #24

Post by Solomon »

Joaz Banbeck wrote:Sol,

The video for #5 sometimes does not load, and sometimes generates errors.

Hmmm, well I added a URL to the video instead of just an embeddable video, but other than that I don't think there's anything I can do to fix that :(.
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Re: Tabemasu vs. Araban : Malkovich #24

Post by Solomon »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c Move 7
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . B . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
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$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


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Re: Tabemasu vs. Araban : Malkovich #24

Post by Kirby »

Araban wrote:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c Move 7
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . B . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
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$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]




I was kind of confused from before when Araban's rationale for playing move 3 was simply that it "looked cool" or showed up in some pro games, but it seems that his intention is described more clearly in this commentary - he wants to play an opening that Gus hasn't seen a lot before.

This is kind of interesting to me. I'm not sure if I would really play this way (black 3, for the reasons Tabemasu mentioned already), but it's an interesting strategy to consider playing in a way that your opponent hasn't seen before.
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Re: Tabemasu vs. Araban : Malkovich #24

Post by fwiffo »

I recall reading a commentary on a move in a pro game that was something along the lines of "that move is brilliant and wonderful, even if it doesn't actually work". I think this opening by black is beautiful, even if it does not work.

But it is interesting that it does have some logic behind it; the idea of making the top and bottom miai for a mini-Chinese formation is kinda funny.
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