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Offline Solomon
 Post subject: 24. Tabemasu (7d) vs. Araban (5d)
Post #1 Posted: Fri Apr 23, 2010 10:15 am 
Gosei
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Hello everyone! This will be a game between Gus (Tabemasu) 7d and I. We've decided on a reduced handicap of no-komi for me taking Black. Gus and I have brushed shoulders in various tournaments and Congresses, BUT we've never actually had a chance to talk, let alone play (even online...I think) :(. So hopefully this will be a great opportunity for both of us! GL HF Gus :D.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c Move 1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , B . . |
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$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
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$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


No video for now (I'm typing this in-between classes, I just finished a Probability exam 30 minutes early...feels bad man).

For the first move, it's always really a coin flip between the 4-4 or the 3-4 for me. Both are very common in all levels of Go, from the players who just played their first game to the highest-class professionals. The only aspect where a 3-4 bests the 4-4 is that it has a greater history. It's a shame that, when it comes to the history and cultural aspects of Go, I am about a 20k :(. However, if my knowledge is correct, it was Go Seigen who pioneered the widespread usage of the 4-4; senseis also says:
Quote:
Only in the twentieth century, and especially with the introduction of komi, did it begin to rival 3-4 point and 3-5 point openings as a common corner move.
Anyways, on the board each have their pros and cons. The general jist is that, the 3-4 is more territorial and the 4-4 is more influential. This is because the 4-4 leaves open the 3-3 for invasion at any time, allowing Black to live cleanly. However, the timing behind the invasion is essential because if it's played too soon, then the thickness I get outweighs in value the corner territory that Black would get. Even in this simple invasion there are a wealth of variations to discover, some of which you can find here: http://senseis.xmp.net/?33PointInvasion

And for those who'd like to know more about the 3-4 and 4-4 points in general, once again the senseis articles are excellent: http://senseis.xmp.net/?34Point and http://senseis.xmp.net/?44Point

I'll try not to refer to articles so much :).

This post by Solomon was liked by: tj86430
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Offline Kirby
 Post subject: Re: Tabemasu vs. Araban : Malkovich #24
Post #2 Posted: Fri Apr 23, 2010 10:36 am 
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Looking forward to this game 8-)

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Offline Tabemasu
 Post subject: Re: Tabemasu vs. Araban : Malkovich #24
Post #3 Posted: Fri Apr 23, 2010 12:42 pm 
Dies in gote
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Well, I guess he sort of introduced me in his post, so no need to I guess :).
Have a good game!


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c Move 2
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
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$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . W . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Lately I've been playing large scale moyo style games so I think this game should be entertaining at least! Not really much to say early on, I hope you enjoy this!

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Offline Solomon
 Post subject: Re: Tabemasu vs. Araban : Malkovich #24
Post #4 Posted: Fri Apr 23, 2010 6:19 pm 
Gosei
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c Move 3
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , B . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


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Offline Tabemasu
 Post subject: Re: Tabemasu vs. Araban : Malkovich #24
Post #5 Posted: Sat Apr 24, 2010 5:28 am 
Dies in gote
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c Move 4
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . W . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Blacks opening is unexpected. The reason is because if I approach either of his komokus around a or b, the direction is excellent for white. It's a little unreasonable to expect I won't get at least one.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . a , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . b , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


If the game had been played like below, after 3 the direction of his komoku at 1 is better.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 . . . . |
$$ | . . . 2 . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Anyway, black 3 is quite uncommon! Perhaps he has some special strategy in mind for me :D
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Offline Violence
 Post subject: Re: Tabemasu vs. Araban : Malkovich #24
Post #6 Posted: Sat Apr 24, 2010 6:06 am 
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I've been waiting for a match like this.
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Offline Kirby
 Post subject: Re: Tabemasu vs. Araban : Malkovich #24
Post #7 Posted: Sat Apr 24, 2010 9:42 am 
Honinbo

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Araban wrote:


I was hoping that there'd be more of an explanation of the reason behind playing :b3:, especially due to Tabemasu's comments about it, but the only reason I could find was because it "looks cool" and because it shows up in some pro games.

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Offline ChradH
 Post subject: Re: Tabemasu vs. Araban : Malkovich #24
Post #8 Posted: Sat Apr 24, 2010 11:18 am 
Dies with sente
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Kirby wrote:
Araban wrote:

I was hoping that there'd be more of an explanation of the reason behind playing :b3:, especially due to Tabemasu's comments about it, but the only reason I could find was because it "looks cool" and because it shows up in some pro games.

From some players' comments in other Malkovich games I already got the impression that people tend to play a bit more 'for the audience' than their normal style. This may be an understandable reaction when the whole internet is staring over your shoulder :D But on the other hand, especially black might get more out of the game analysis if his normal moves get commented (and/or punished).

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Offline Solomon
 Post subject: Re: Tabemasu vs. Araban : Malkovich #24
Post #9 Posted: Sat Apr 24, 2010 3:59 pm 
Gosei
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c Move 5
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . B . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q5TjSFbCsqg


Last edited by Solomon on Sun Apr 25, 2010 11:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Offline Tabemasu
 Post subject: Re: Tabemasu vs. Araban : Malkovich #24
Post #10 Posted: Sun Apr 25, 2010 1:39 pm 
Dies in gote
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c Move 6
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . W . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I expect he will play the mini chinese next, in which case I will take the big point I talked about last time at 2. If this happens then it looks like it might be a moyo game.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . 2 , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . 1 . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Sorry I don't have a lot to say yet, I'm sure I will later. :)
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Offline Joaz Banbeck
 Post subject: Re: Tabemasu vs. Araban : Malkovich #24
Post #11 Posted: Sun Apr 25, 2010 11:40 pm 
Judan
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Sol,

The video for #5 sometimes does not load, and sometimes generates errors.

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Offline Solomon
 Post subject: Re: Tabemasu vs. Araban : Malkovich #24
Post #12 Posted: Sun Apr 25, 2010 11:59 pm 
Gosei
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Joaz Banbeck wrote:
Sol,

The video for #5 sometimes does not load, and sometimes generates errors.

Hmmm, well I added a URL to the video instead of just an embeddable video, but other than that I don't think there's anything I can do to fix that :(.
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Offline Solomon
 Post subject: Re: Tabemasu vs. Araban : Malkovich #24
Post #13 Posted: Mon Apr 26, 2010 3:21 pm 
Gosei
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c Move 7
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . B . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
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Offline Kirby
 Post subject: Re: Tabemasu vs. Araban : Malkovich #24
Post #14 Posted: Tue Apr 27, 2010 7:38 am 
Honinbo

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Araban wrote:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c Move 7
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . B . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]




I was kind of confused from before when Araban's rationale for playing move 3 was simply that it "looked cool" or showed up in some pro games, but it seems that his intention is described more clearly in this commentary - he wants to play an opening that Gus hasn't seen a lot before.

This is kind of interesting to me. I'm not sure if I would really play this way (black 3, for the reasons Tabemasu mentioned already), but it's an interesting strategy to consider playing in a way that your opponent hasn't seen before.

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Offline fwiffo
 Post subject: Re: Tabemasu vs. Araban : Malkovich #24
Post #15 Posted: Tue Apr 27, 2010 8:23 am 
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I recall reading a commentary on a move in a pro game that was something along the lines of "that move is brilliant and wonderful, even if it doesn't actually work". I think this opening by black is beautiful, even if it does not work.

But it is interesting that it does have some logic behind it; the idea of making the top and bottom miai for a mini-Chinese formation is kinda funny.

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Offline schultz
 Post subject: Re: Tabemasu vs. Araban : Malkovich #24
Post #16 Posted: Tue Apr 27, 2010 5:11 pm 
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fwiffo wrote:
I recall reading a commentary on a move in a pro game that was something along the lines of "that move is brilliant and wonderful, even if it doesn't actually work". I think this opening by black is beautiful, even if it does not work.

But it is interesting that it does have some logic behind it; the idea of making the top and bottom miai for a mini-Chinese formation is kinda funny.

Or the option to keep a very symmetrical game going with the play at P10 :)


Violence wrote:
I've been waiting for a match like this.

Agreed! But I can understand how you'd be a bit more excited about this, as I'll probably get as much out of this game as any of the other low kyu/dan matches. :P

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Offline Tabemasu
 Post subject: Re: Tabemasu vs. Araban : Malkovich #24
Post #17 Posted: Tue Apr 27, 2010 7:23 pm 
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c Move 8
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . W , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Ok, well I guess I give up trying to guess my opponents strategy. :)
Black is going for a very fast opening, with my pincer I'm trying to mess up his plans.

I've read a few diagrams like the ones below, and so far I don't see anything unfavorable for me.


This is ok for me, I get to take the big point at 6.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 3 . . . . 5 . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 4 . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . O , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . 6 , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


After W10 he can play at a or b, if 'a' then I get to reduce his corner in sente and pincer at 'c' to start attacking him, since his group on the left side isn't settled, the fight doesn't seem very good for him. If 'b' then I can build a big moyo on the left side, and I will be very happy. :)

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . 7 9 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . b 3 5 6 X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 0 4 O 8 2 . . O , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . a , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . c , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


This is the most fierce way I can think of, and it will start a big fight early on.
It's hard to say this will be good or bad for either player. (Note that it doesn't have to be exactly 3, anywhere around that area is a good pincer.)

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . O , . 3 . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


There are many other possibilities but I don't think it's such a great idea to have too many diagrams so I'll just leave it at that.

Anyway, he may just tenuki again :). This opening is interesting and uncommon, it's not easy to say it's bad for Black. I look forward to seeing how this game develops.
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Offline wossname
 Post subject: Re: Tabemasu vs. Araban : Malkovich #24
Post #18 Posted: Tue Apr 27, 2010 9:17 pm 
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just posting to get in on ground floor of epic malkovich. tabemasu is the strong man
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Offline prokofiev
 Post subject: Re: Tabemasu vs. Araban : Malkovich #24
Post #19 Posted: Tue Apr 27, 2010 9:25 pm 
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[go]$$c Move 5
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . , . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


This looks interesting, extending from a putative shimari at the top or bottom. It feels like nice high/low balance too.

Is this playable? How does it compare to san-ren-sei, if at all?
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Offline xDragon
 Post subject: Re: Tabemasu vs. Araban : Malkovich #24
Post #20 Posted: Tue Apr 27, 2010 9:29 pm 
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prokofiev wrote:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c Move 5
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


This looks interesting, extending from a putative shimari at the top or bottom. It feels like nice high/low balance too.

Is this playable? How does it compare to san-ren-sei, if at all?


well b had pointed out making that formation if w were to pincer on this most recent move (or the move before, forget), or making a mini chinese. so id say its certainly playable

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