Posts: 2116 Location: Silicon Valley Liked others: 152 Was liked: 330
Rank: 2d AGA
GD Posts: 1193
KGS: lavalamp
Tygem: imapenguin
IGS: lavalamp
OGS: daniel_the_smith
Approved. I can haz another correction nao plz?
I prefer defending the corner, I think, but this separates a black stone and ensures that black won't make a lot of points here, so I can live with it. I don't think we'll have many points in the corner now, we'll have to make it up on the bottom.
I've thought of a way to value the corrections via an exponential function. So the first one is worth about 2 points and the 10th one is worth 50 or more. This might help me decide what's worth changing.
_________________ That which can be destroyed by the truth should be. -- My (sadly neglected, but not forgotten) project: http://dailyjoseki.com
[go]$$Bcm45 Prisoners: B=0, W=0 Corrections: B=6 - 0 , W=3 - 2 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . . X . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . X O X . . O O X . | $$ | . . . , O . X . . O X X O O O , X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X X X O . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X O O X X X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . | $$ | . . . . O . W . . . . O X . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . X . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . X . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . O X O . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . O O X . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Difficult move to reply to...Do I treat it as an approach on the corner and protect it, leaving black to develop a moyo, or do I try to hinder the moyo and leave the corner open for invasion? Let's try going for the moyo.
[Chew mod edit: fixed this hide tag]
for obs only:
i like way he played. defending the corner is very passive in my opinion. what he played is actually defending the corner and same time cutting down the moyo developed in the middle. professional play in my opinion.
_________________ "The more we think we know about The greater the unknown" Words by neil peart, music by geddy lee and alex lifeson
Posts: 4511 Location: Chatteris, UK Liked others: 1589 Was liked: 656
Rank: Nebulous
GD Posts: 918
KGS: topazg
I agree with magicwand. I think this is a very interesting move too. Black cannot easily play in the corner and expect a good result, as he'll have two-ish groups to White's one.
In the corner I prefer C17 to C16 for White. We'll see what Black does.
Posts: 476 Liked others: 193 Was liked: 83
Rank: Dutch 2 dan
GD Posts: 56
KGS: hopjesvla
Wow. Joaz Banbeck's corrections never cease to amaze me. I personally think that in both of those cases Phelan's move was clearly superior. I might be wrong, but damn, what a way to waste two valuable rescue opportunities later on! Let's hope for Phelan's sake that they will not lose the game in a tricky semeai due to having 0 corrections...
_________________ My name is Gijs, from Utrecht, NL.
[go]$$Bcm45 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . . X . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . X O X . . O O X . | $$ | . . b , O . X . . O X X O O O , X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X X X O . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X O O X X X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . | $$ | . . . . O . O . . . . O X . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . X . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . a . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . c . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . X . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . O X O . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . O O X . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
I don't like this move. I don't like any of our moves. I think the bottom is getting big, and I would play my original attachment again, but then I think that would make our last move pointless. When Joaz tenukied from the cap he indicated that it was a light stone, a probe to make White choose one side. White took the top, so logically we should take the 3-4 point and steal the corner away from him. But instead we played a move that *should* prompt White to solidify the corner. The way I see it the top is small, with little prospect of territory for either side. So essentially, I am still in the dark as to Joaz's intentions, which means that I might cost us yet another correction....
[go]$$Bcm45 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . . X . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . X O X . . O O X . | $$ | . . b , O . X . . O X X O O O , X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X X X O . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X O O X X X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . | $$ | . . . . O . O . . . . O X . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . X . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . a . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . c . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . X . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . O X O . . . | $$ | . . . O . d . . . , . O O X . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
I'm basically playing the numbers game here. To be honest I feel that 'a' this is the worse move compared to 'b' , but it is the most logical continuation of our previous plays. It also means that after invading the corner, I will still be uncertain of Joaz's intentions regarding the bottom, so I will need every correction I can get. However, if Joaz next corrects this moves and turns to the bottom, I'd at least have a better strategic sense for our continuations. Then a correction might not hurt as much.
I'm quite worried if White takes sente some how (or just directly tenukis) and gets a move like 'c' or 'd'. In fact, I smell a major fight looming, and corrections are going to be worth their weight in gold. These few moves are the most important ones of the game, and this also happens to be the point in the game where I am most confused. I really need to figure out what Joaz is thinking soon, or we could be in deep trouble...
[go]$$Wcm46 Prisoners: 0, 0 Corrections: B=6 - 1 , W=3 - 3 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . . X . | $$ | . . W . . . . . . . X O X . . O O X . | $$ | . . X , O . X . . O X X O O O , X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X X X O . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X O O X X X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . | $$ | . . . . O . O . . . . O X . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . X . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . X . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . O X O . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . O O X . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Ouch. I was expecting it, but still... I should have already had a plan in place to deal with this invasion. The normal response to a pincer would be to jump out, but here it looks weak and overconcentrated:
Posts: 2116 Location: Silicon Valley Liked others: 152 Was liked: 330
Rank: 2d AGA
GD Posts: 1193
KGS: lavalamp
Tygem: imapenguin
IGS: lavalamp
OGS: daniel_the_smith
Sorry guys, I was thinking about this one.
I guess I'll approve it...
I'm not really a fan of this move but it's hard to find anything better. And I guess I should only fix large mistakes anyway, and this isn't a large one, if a mistake at all...
_________________ That which can be destroyed by the truth should be. -- My (sadly neglected, but not forgotten) project: http://dailyjoseki.com
[go]$$Bc $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . . X . | $$ | . X O O . . . . . . X O X . . O O X . | $$ | . . X , O . X . . O X X O O O , X . . | $$ | . 1 . . 3 . . . . . . X X X O . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X O O X X X . . | $$ | . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . | $$ | . . . . O . O . . . . O X . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . X . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . X . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . O X O . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . O O X . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
BTW, if white ever tries to strengthen his K-file stones to go after our G16 stone, our natural defence includes an attack on the upper right. After black 4, white must defend his corner or 'a' kills:
[go]$$Bcm47 Prisoners: 0, 0 Corrections: B=6 - 2 , W=4 - 0 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . . X . | $$ | . X O O . . . . . . X O X . . O O X . | $$ | . . X , O . X . . O X X O O O , X . . | $$ | . B . . . . . . . . . X X X O . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X O O X X X . . | $$ | . W . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . | $$ | . . . . O . O . . . . O X . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . X . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . X . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . O X O . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . O O X . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Ok, this one is not joseki (as far as I know)...but the corner seems small and our group can run easily, so I'll try taking the rest of the side we can still get.
...was what I was going to post. I just saw Black E14, though. I'll think it over and post a move tomorrow.
[go]$$Bcm49 Alternative 1 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . . X . | $$ | . X O O . . . . . . X O X . . O O X . | $$ | . . X , O . X . . O X X O O O , X . . | $$ | . X . 1 2 . . . . . . X X X O . . . . | $$ | . . W 3 . . . . . . . X O O X X X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . | $$ | . . . . O . O . . . . O X . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . X . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . X . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . O X O . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . O O X . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Also not good enough.
So, I see no effective way to keep the side without fighting it out with Black, and I don't think it the fight is worth it, after that exchange in the top right.
That means we have to either live locally, or jump out, before trying to limit Black's potential in the left.
[go]$$Bcm49 Alternative 1 $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . W . . . . . . . . . O O . . . . X . | $$ | . X O O . . . . . . X O X . . O O X . | $$ | . . X , O . X . . O X X O O O , X . . | $$ | . X . . . . . . . . . X X X O . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X O O X X X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . | $$ | . a 1 . O . O . . . . O X . . X . . . | $$ | . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . X . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . X . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O . O X O . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . , . O O X . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Hmm, forcing black to play 49 or a seems interesting, since we can put some pressure on their group while building a wall to the left. I think I'll go with that. Daniel, feel free to choose a fighting alternative if you see a good line.
[go]$$Wc $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | c . b . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | 2 1 a . . . . . . . . O O . . . . X . | $$ | . X O O . . . . . . X O X . . O O X . | $$ | . . X , O . X . . O X X O O O , X . . | $$ | . X . . . . . . . . . X X X O . . . . | $$ | . . . . d . . . . . . X O O X X X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . | $$ | . . . . O . O . . . . O X . . X . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . X . . . , . . . . . , . . . |[/go]
They could play 'b', with an eye toward the ko at 'c', but we have lots of threats over in the top right.
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